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Author Topic: Tyranny  (Read 2193 times)

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triskel

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2018, 09:46:29 AM »

... in ITM ... the concertina seems to have slipped in quietly and become an uncontroversial instrument although it has so much in common with the box. Any ideas why this is so?

I'd consider it majorly different in at least three respects, in that 1) the concertina doesn't have fixed (and limited) accompanying chords, 2) the box has two rows a semitone apart that led to a tradition of using the other row for playing ornamentation that was discordant, 3) the box used to invariably have wide musette tuning which other musicians can have problems with - a friend who is a (box-playing) concertina player described the very wet tuning of my "Joe Cooley" D/D# as having "too many notes" sounding.

Ó Riada liked the concertina...
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 12:46:30 PM by triskel »
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folkloristmark

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2018, 10:32:34 AM »

Wet tuning. Allowed by more reed sets possible in a concertina but rare and not in the itm?
 
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Mark Taylor
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triskel

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2018, 12:44:32 PM »

Wet tuning. Allowed by more reed sets possible in a concertina but rare and not in the itm?

I've heard of the (very) odd Anglo or English concertina that was double-reeded (gentle tremolo not "wet", or octave-tuned), but they're so rare that I've never heard one being played, whilst the old German concertinas have been obsolete in ITM since beyond (just about everybody's) living memory.

But when I say "very wet" I'm talking about a box that's MMM with a "strong musette" tuning of + and - 25 cents, like a Paolo Soprani in factory tuning...
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Clawhammer

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2018, 03:40:49 PM »

Personally, I've learned hundreds of melodies on four stringed instruments since the mid-70s, occasionally dealing with haughty forms of tyranny (i.e., mostly fiddlers).  Since first starting up on a decent-quality two-row box a couple years ago, I can honestly say that this has been one of the most cognitively/musically difficult instruments for me to "turn the corner" on compared to anything else I've learned. 

To my 62 year old brain, extracting the most complimentary subtleties out of an instrument that possesses inherent limitations is (now) more musically challenging that prioritizing how to crank up the speed of my emitted notes.  (I understand that this is not really what most all posts in this stream are suggesting).
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trying to capably ride a pair of Mengascini C#/D and Baffetti BP D/G two-voice boxes.

richard.fleming

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #44 on: July 05, 2018, 07:42:44 PM »

... in ITM ... the concertina seems to have slipped in quietly and become an uncontroversial instrument although it has so much in common with the box. Any ideas why this is so?

I'd consider it majorly different in at least three respects, in that 1) the concertina doesn't have fixed (and limited) accompanying chords, 2) the box has two rows a semitone apart that led to a tradition of using the other row for playing ornamentation that was discordant, 3) the box used to invariably have wide musette tuning which other musicians can have problems with - a friend who is a (box-playing) concertina player described the very wet tuning of my "Joe Cooley" D/D# as having "too many notes" sounding.

Ó Riada liked the concertina...

Yes, but you don't have to use discordant ornaments or wide musette tuning. You don't even have to use the basses and chords. On the piano, you can play like Horowitz or Russ Conway; same with the box. I think the ITM community has taken a while to decide which of the possibilities it likes the best.
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triskel

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #45 on: July 06, 2018, 12:06:56 PM »

... but you don't have to use discordant ornaments ...

Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with a touch of dissonance in ornamentation (it's used to great effect in some ancient Irish harp ornamention for example), but it can become random, and overdone, and ruin the effect.

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... you don't have to use ... wide musette tuning.

It's a choice that some of us make these days, but there was no other option in the old days - when accordion tuners, and options, were unheard of and you had to play the box as it came from the factory, and buy another new one when that one became unusable. :(

Quote
You don't even have to use the basses and chords.

And I forgot to mention how some of the old timers used to use the basses more for rhythmic effect than to harmonise with what they were playing...

But things have changed a lot in the meantime, whilst I'd find a lot of the concertina ornamention being used today to be totally OTT.
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richard.fleming

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #46 on: July 06, 2018, 04:52:41 PM »

That all makes plenty of sense to me. I've got boxes in a range of wetnesses, and sometimes that factory tuning is just what I need. In fact, I might just play the wet one right now just for the hell of it. (D/D#, the nearest I get to sounding like Cooley)
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #47 on: July 09, 2018, 04:06:59 PM »

quick google has nypost.com …

There are also plenty of interviews with veteran conjunto musicians a la “The Buena Vista Social Club” – without the tyranny of communism. You’d think the Commies would have come West just to rub out the accordion, but no luck.

But it's sort of a reversal of what you wanted? om other pages the words are widely separated
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