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Author Topic: Tyranny  (Read 7203 times)

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Stiamh

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2018, 12:19:11 PM »

According to Tomás Ó Cannain, when he confronted Ó Riada about his disparaging remarks about the accordion, the latter conceded that he had overstated the case for the sake of making a point (a point about the instrument's suitability for interpreting music that had been developed on pipes and fiddles that needed to be made, I'd say). And don't forget that Ó Riada included an accordion player (Éamon de Buitléar) in one of his ensembles (Ceoltóirí Chualann).

Has nobody in the English tradition ever bemoaned the fact that melodeons have become the standard instrument for morris dancing, for example? 

Helena Handcart

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2018, 12:27:41 PM »

Has nobody in the English tradition ever bemoaned the fact that melodeons have become the standard instrument for morris dancing, for example?

Yes, mostly pipe and tabor players who we mostly ignore  (:) :|||:
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triskel

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2018, 02:20:09 PM »

According to Tomás Ó Cannain, when he confronted Ó Riada about his disparaging remarks about the accordion, the latter conceded that he had overstated the case for the sake of making a point (a point about the instrument's suitability for interpreting music that had been developed on pipes and fiddles that needed to be made, I'd say).

Ah, I didn't know Tomás had done that, good for him! But, of course, he's a piano accordion player, as well as a piper and an academic, whilst when you look more into what Ó Riada said it was really about the practices of Irish button accordion players, with their discordant ornamention and chord playing (which was often more a rhythmic device than harmonious, with the older players ;)).

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And don't forget that Ó Riada included an accordion player (Éamon de Buitléar) in one of his ensembles (Ceoltóirí Chualann).

In fact he included TWO of them, don't forget the wonderful Sonny Brogan! (Who Ó Riada wrote in praise of... )

I tried to open an email dialogue with Éamon about all this, but he never went into it and died not long after that. He was a lovely man, a renowned producer of nature programmes, and a fine calligrapher (it was a joy to receive a letter from him, his handwriting was so beautiful, and you'd almost want to frame one of his cheques instead of cashing it!) He had a strong preference for a pair of old-style narrow leather straps (without padding) on his boxes too - which I provided him with on several occasions.

Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2018, 02:39:31 PM »


Has nobody in the English tradition ever bemoaned the fact that melodeons have become the standard instrument for morris dancing, for example?

Other instrument are making something of a comeback, down our way, especially for border. We have a piper and whistle players. Wreckers have at least one brass player. Isambard's Rats have a flute player. Beltane have a whistle player. The variety is increasing all the time and, of course, fiddles never really went away.

I think the driver behind this is the availability of portable personal amps. Once you start to use these you can start to balance the dynamics  Doesn't always work but when it does you get some great sound textures.
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ACCORDION, n. An instrument in harmony with the sentiments of an assassin. Ambrose Bierce

Helena Handcart

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2018, 05:07:33 PM »

Other instrument are making something of a comeback, down our way, especially for border.

I don't think this has anything to do with geography and all to do with your flavour of morris - and serves merely as a reminder that there is no single English morris tradition.

For the teams I play for amplification is neither needed or wanted and we favour solo or at most two-three musicians .

Last week I stepped up to help out some borderist buddies and found myself playing alongside a mandolin, a ukelele and whistles (all amplified), a massive drum and someone banging sticks together.  Luckily I've got an Oakwood and I'm not afraid to use it so competing with the amplification was not an issue but I'd forgotten just how different the border band experience is  (:)

I guess when you consider most modern border teams the argument that the melodeon is the 'standard' instrument for morris dancing falls by the wayside?
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Hugh Taylor

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2018, 05:00:35 PM »

I've heard the phrase 'tyranny of the melodeon' in the context of "playing everything in D, G, Am, or Em". Didn't Dave Sheppard use it when expressing 'concern' over people altering his tunes written in Gm to Am or even Em.
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Jesse Smith

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2018, 05:26:59 PM »

I've heard the phrase 'tyranny of the melodeon' in the context of "playing everything in D, G, Am, or Em". Didn't Dave Sheppard use it when expressing 'concern' over people altering his tunes written in Gm to Am or even Em.
Of course, the D/G melodeon was invented/popularized in order to play along with the most common fiddling keys, so I don't think the melodeon can take all the blame for the prevalence of D and G.
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triskel

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2018, 07:00:03 PM »

Of course, the D/G melodeon was invented/popularized in order to play along with the most common fiddling keys, so I don't think the melodeon can take all the blame for the prevalence of D and G.

Except you couldn't buy a Hohner D/G in Britain until 1955, when Bell's got one batch of pokerwork ones, and one batch of Ericas, made.

Up until then all the boxes in use had a row in C (be they C/C#, B/C, C/F, G/C, or single-row C), and hence my comment about fiddles being forced to tune down to play with them... :(

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2018, 07:09:07 PM »

Yes, I guess bringing in D/G instruments was an improvement over the previous position, but even so, there are many fiddle tunes in A and in flat keys including the perfectly fiddle-friendly G minor and D minor, which tend to get transposed or sidelined because of D/G melodeon influence.

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Winston Smith

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2018, 07:22:54 PM »

So the D/G melodeon is actually the grey squirrel of Tradmusicland?
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Anahata

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2018, 08:22:17 PM »

Tree rats, my dad used to call them.
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triskel

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2018, 10:20:46 PM »

So the D/G melodeon is actually the grey squirrel of Tradmusicland?

There's quite a discussion of the topic here Edward: The rise of D/G (and the fall of "English Chromatic" C/C#) since 1949

(I guess that means C/C# boxes are red squirrels then... :o)

Winston Smith

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2018, 10:36:47 PM »

"(I guess that means C/C# boxes are red squirrels then... :o)"

Especially since I've now got one to care for!
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2018, 10:44:47 PM »

"(I guess that means C/C# boxes are red squirrels then... :o)"

Especially since I've now got one to care for!

Careful. They bite.
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Greg Smith
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ACCORDION, n. An instrument in harmony with the sentiments of an assassin. Ambrose Bierce

Roger Hare

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2018, 10:30:39 PM »

Has nobody in the English tradition ever bemoaned the fact that melodeons have become the standard instrument for morris dancing, for example?

Yes, mostly pipe and tabor players who we mostly ignore  (:) :|||:

Quite by chance, one of our band, not an hour ago, produced a tabor and whistle (not a pipe)
and played 'Shepherds Hey' for a solo jig by one of t'dancers, so it still happens  - a nice finish
to the evening...
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 11:05:05 PM by lachenal74693 »
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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2018, 11:08:12 PM »

I have occasionally danced morris to pipe and tabor and it is wonderful music to dance to.
Definitely don't knock it until you've tried it.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2018, 01:01:44 AM »

I have a tabour pipe. Evil thing invented by the devil to drive to you to drink.
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Greg Smith
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ACCORDION, n. An instrument in harmony with the sentiments of an assassin. Ambrose Bierce

Ebor_fiddler

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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2018, 12:02:58 AM »

A few years ago, when I still fiddled for Goathland Plough Stots, we were invited to dance at an event hosted by Handsworth, and there was a Pipe and Tabor Man who played for one of the Cotswold sides. At an impromptu session at dinnertime, he not only kept up with all the "big" instruments, but led a great number of tunes. I was distinctly impressed.
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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2018, 08:24:18 AM »

I have occasionally danced morris to pipe and tabor and it is wonderful music to dance to.

Ken Watson, who many here will know from leading sessions at Whitby, plays pipe and tabor occasionally for  Grimsby Morris. It looks and sounds wonderful  :M
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Re: Tyranny
« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2018, 08:40:04 AM »

2 points -
Why hasn't the thread drift been noted...
The other more important point I'd like to make is that while there is enough controversy about the box and it's place in ITM and in Irish culture and nationalism and as a new instrument influencing the development of ITM and about various box styles and their relationship to social class and class based tastes and so on and so on to fill a thesis, or a book... the concertina seems to have slipped in quietly and become an uncontroversial instrument although it has so much in common with the box. Any ideas why this is so?
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