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Author Topic: Accidental on a Serenellini Lady D/G melodeon  (Read 495 times)

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Pam Woodcock

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Accidental on a Serenellini Lady D/G melodeon
« on: June 20, 2018, 09:15:24 PM »

Hello, I have recently bought and generally am totally delighted with this box,it was a brand new Serenellini , (23 button), but I am unsure if the accidentals should be tuned as they currently are, my Skype melodeon tutor was very surprised at this tuning and felt it was not as it should be. So before I contact the shop where I purchased it and ask them to re tune it I thought I would ask your opinions and is their any benefit to this tuning option, I am a novice melodeon player of 8 months so know nothing?
On the G row, push... Eb, B, E ....G row pull...F,C,F#
F row push..Ab, Low G, low A, D row pull B#, low A, C#
Thanks in advance for your advice.
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Theo

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Re: Accidental on a Serenellini Lady D/G melodeon
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2018, 09:44:10 PM »

Can you check what you have written please?   
"F row push" should clearly be D row push,

E push on button 3 of the G row is not normal, it is usually D

And B# on button 1 D row pull would be Bb.
Other than that the accidentals are fairly normal.   

There is considerable variation on which way round the accidentals are the G row can be Fpush/Eb pull or Eb push/F pull
D row accidental can be either Ab push/Bb pull or Bb push/Ab pull

This page shows a variety of common layouts. http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/page,keyboard_2_row.html
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Pam Woodcock

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Re: Accidental on a Serenellini Lady D/G melodeon
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2018, 09:47:30 PM »

Sorry yes it should read D not F row.Thanks Pam
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Theo

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Re: Accidental on a Serenellini Lady D/G melodeon
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2018, 09:51:22 PM »

And the E push on G row button 3?  That would be unusual, but not unheard of.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Nigel

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Re: Accidental on a Serenellini Lady D/G melodeon
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2018, 10:24:48 PM »

Hi Pam. You might wish to ask the same question on "Mels Angels" facebook page because there are at least 4 members who play a Lady.   
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Pam Woodcock

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Re: Accidental on a Serenellini Lady D/G melodeon
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2018, 11:04:00 PM »

It was Mel (I have  monthly Skype lessons) who told me she had never seen this tuning before on a Serenellini. But she said it may be something she was not aware of, hence this post.
Are there any benefits to this tuning? As it must of come out of the factory like this I can only assume.
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Theo

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Re: Accidental on a Serenellini Lady D/G melodeon
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2018, 11:12:05 PM »

The accidentals are pretty much standard for Italian boxes, thats the way they are on mine, but many people flip the reeds over to swap the push and pull notes,
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Anahata

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Re: Accidental on a Serenellini Lady D/G melodeon
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2018, 11:32:43 PM »

I have a melodeon tuned exactly like that. It's This layout with the accidentals reversed in direction.

Low notes:
The low G on the D row and the low C natural on the G row mean that you have all the notes for complete scales in G and D down to that low G, which covers a great deal of traditional music as it matches the range of a fiddle. I'm sometime claimed to have invented that modification, which is true but I wasn't the only one, as Theo has done the same independently, and it's quite possible others have too. It's been widely discussed on Melnet e.h. here

Accidentals:
G row: The D♯ on push goes with your B bass (which hopefully has a B major chord) for playing E minor tunes that have a D♯. I especially like this. You lose the ability to play a G7 RH chord because you need F on push for that.
D row: accidentals have the obscure advantage of letting you play right hand E major and G minor chords.
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Gena Crisman

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Re: Accidental on a Serenellini Lady D/G melodeon
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2018, 01:01:11 AM »

I've been in hobgoblin a few times in the past few months and they've had several new instruments with a push E on the G row instead of the regular D - my gut says they were all Serenellinis but I imagine it's by hobgob's request. It's sort of a nice idea since these 2 low Ds don't really help with fingering long arpeggios like the mid point Ds, but, it still does complicate some fingering as you have to reach under your hand sometimes to find your D note when playing in G.

The benefits of the Push E is that, you normally have no push E anywhere on the DG melodeon, so, that's one big perk. Additionally, if you cross row, you get a push run of D E F# G A B, to match your pull run on the same buttons of E F# G A B C. I use parts of the pull run quite a lot, the idea of having the push run extend down to D is appealing to me, it could simplify which D basses I'd need to use.

edit - obviously, though, it somewhat upsets the 'pattern' of the regular layout, especially as many people will have gotten used to playing with the normal 2nd push D there. It really depends on where you feel comfortable on the spectrum that runs from 'it's a pair of one row instruments stuck together' to 'maybe the dutch reversal might be a good idea' to 'so... I'm going to need all of the notes'. There is a system, a 'method to the madness', to the standard layout, that the best/most thought out modifications try not to disrupt, but, I know at least a couple of people have eyed up the G row low push D as being perhaps a bit unnecessary.

There's no 'correct' answer though, but maybe someone ought to have let you know if it was a little unusual in this regard when you bought it? If you learn with an odd system, you can have problems moving to a new instrument in the future, especially if the system you know is particularly unusual. But, if you're happy to embrace it, I see no reason not to reap the benefits? You don't have to have a fancy layout or to think too much about these things to be a good player though; I had a go on someone's instrument that was 4th button start, and their G row 2nd button had another low pull E, and while I'm sure it works for them, I couldn't understand it at all! Another player I know, a good number of their highest reeds don't even fire at all - I'm thinking to myself 'perfect, all the more reason to get it converted to 4th button start...' and, they haven't really thought about it and aren't that interested. And they're both perfectly decent players, have a good time, and support the folk tradition.

As noted, Accidental direction is more particular and will relate more to your taste in music and repertoire - it took me quite a while to have an opinion on this. I'm finding I prefer the pull F/pull G# arrangement that you have, mainly because I've fallen in love E harmonic minor (D# against a B major chord) and I keep learning new tunes that just work better with the Bb/G# accidental that way around, and the tunes where I would use the Bb against an E minor (jump at the sun), I've been happy to sub the E minor basses/chord for the B or G bass and G chord.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 04:34:58 AM by Gena Crisman »
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Anahata

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Re: Accidental on a Serenellini Lady D/G melodeon
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2018, 07:19:19 AM »

The benefits of the Push E is that, you normally have no push E anywhere on the DG melodeon, so, that's one big perk. Additionally, if you cross row, you get a push run of D E F# G A B, to match your pull run on the same buttons of E F# G A B C.
I suppose the push run is a slight benefit, though I'd take a while getting used to it.

Quote
I know at least a couple of people have eyed up the G row low push D as being perhaps a bit unnecessary.
I got used to avoiding it when that note went badly out of tune on my Pokerwork, years ago.
But if I were to change that D now, I'd change it to an F natural, so I could play stuff in C.
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Lyra

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Re: Accidental on a Serenellini Lady D/G melodeon
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2018, 08:51:17 AM »

I'm one of the Mel Ladies and of no use whatsoever as mine is all low notes :)
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Accidental on a Serenellini Lady D/G melodeon
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2018, 09:55:37 AM »

As Anahata mentions, the D# push on the G row is useful. It was only last night I realised I was using a great deal in the tunes I'm currently playing...... though others might appreciate the inverted reed. It's horses for courses.

Yes a low Fnat is the only thing I miss on my 2 rows. A friend suggested sacrificing the D on the G row when I first started, but..... I never got round to it! As said, it also means then you're playing a non standard layout which might have implications.
I either miss out the low Fnat if it doesn't sound too bad or try and play a sequence up an octave.
I'm learning how to cheat  ;)
cheers
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Pam Woodcock

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Re: Accidental on a Serenellini Lady D/G melodeon
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2018, 01:13:59 AM »

Thank you all for taking the time to answer m y post, having read all your thoughts I think I will stick with this somewhat unusual tuning and celebrate it rather than fear it! Thank you.
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Jesse Smith

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Re: Accidental on a Serenellini Lady D/G melodeon
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2018, 02:35:13 AM »

If I can slightly hijack the thread - when I obtained my Pokerwork, it originally had some weird accidentals (I had them retuned to the standard Hohner D/G accidentals). I don't remember what the D row had, but I think the G row had a B in both directions on the accidental button! What possible purpose could that have?? Maybe those reeds were just terribly out of tune, but I don't think the rest of the box was in that bad condition.
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Gena Crisman

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Re: Accidental on a Serenellini Lady D/G melodeon
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2018, 02:59:30 AM »

I think the G row had a B in both directions on the accidental button! What possible purpose could that have??

B would function as a useful low note for the G row, as well as a corollary for G->E for the D row (ie, G->E ~= D->B). As you know, you normally play the E note on the pull, but B makes sense as a push note on the G row - perhaps the previous owner found that making it a uni-sonoric B just worked better for them. Also maybe it was sourced from a unisonoric instrument. Who knows though! All sorts of things can be useful.
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