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Author Topic: Salpa reeds  (Read 3482 times)

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mselic

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Salpa reeds
« on: July 16, 2018, 03:49:40 AM »

As I understand, Salpa reeds are no longer available as the company merged with Antonelli to form Voci Armoniche.  However, this link on the FRM Enterprises page seems to show that Salpa reeds are still available, and if you scroll down the page to the "Cajun" section, it shows photos of the available reeds (which are available in different formats and in any key) with the Salpa label clearly marked on the reedplates.

http://frment.com/reeds/salpa-accordion-reeds/

It also mentions on the same page the merging of the two companies, but still has reeds bearing the Salpa name for sale.  Does this mean that these reeds are still available and are separate product from Voci Armoniche reeds?
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Re: Salpa reeds
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2018, 07:54:14 AM »

Interesting - thanks for posting the link. The entire website is comprehensive and well illustrated.
I can't comment on the question of Salpa reeds, except to say that it certainly looks as if they are still available somehow.

One thing which is especially useful though is the reed numbers chart at the bottom of the Salpa page. This would be very useful when ordering replacement reeds, as I believe all the Italian reed makers identify the pitches of reeds by this reed numbering system. It's worth saving a copy of that chart for future reference. See attached....



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Theo

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Re: Salpa reeds
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2018, 11:55:53 PM »

Another possibility is that they have stock of pre merger Salpa reeds. 
If you eventually order from FRM it would be very helpful if you could post here any further information that you learn about Salpa reed availability.
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pete /acorn

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Re: Salpa reeds
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2018, 06:21:02 AM »

I deal with Voci Armoniche,I will ask the question
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triskel

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Re: Salpa reeds
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2018, 09:01:42 AM »

I was under the impression that both the Salpa and Antonelli factories were still in production, only now they're Voci Armoniche.
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pete /acorn

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Re: Salpa reeds
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2018, 12:52:16 PM »

Reply from Voci Armoniche

Dear Pete,

 

After the merger of Salpa and SIVA (Antonelli) into Voci Armoniche in 2002, the Salpa brand is property of Voci Armoniche. In the early years we continued to sell reeds with the Antonelli and Salpa brand; then we unified our entire production under the brand Voci Armoniche.

So we have not sold reeds with Salpa brand (stamping on the alluminium plate) for many years. And we do not intend to reactivate the brand for the future.

Salpa and Antonelli are now in the brand Voci Armoniche.

If any reeds are sold with the Salpa brand, or are old reeds, or it is counterfeiting, falsification, and violation of trademark law.

Best Regards

 

Lorenzo Antonelli

Presidente e Amministratore delegato
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Re: Salpa reeds
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2018, 12:18:44 PM »

the question is do VA use Salpa and/or Antonelli kit to make the reeds and is that kit operated by a Salpa and/or Antonelli people?  So are you gettingin effect a salpa or an antonelli reed?
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Re: Salpa reeds
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2018, 12:42:27 PM »

Putting on my "common sense" head, for a moment; I'd suggest that your questions do not have answers which would satisfy you.

As Mr Lorenzo has stated, "we unified our entire production under the brand Voci Armoniche.", which reeds would all be made to the same design and standard as their individual model name might describe. I cannot imagine any ex Salpa craftsmen being determined enough to sabotage Mr Lorenzo's production runs by trying to reproduce Salpa reeds surreptitiously under the Voci Armoniche name and in Mr Lorenzo's factories. Especially after 16 years.

Surely, if you pay for Voci Armoniche reeds, then that is what you'll get!
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pete /acorn

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Re: Salpa reeds
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2018, 02:44:18 PM »

the question is do VA use Salpa and/or Antonelli kit to make the reeds and is that kit operated by a Salpa and/or Antonelli people?  So are you gettingin effect a salpa or an antonelli reed?
I have spoken to Lorenzo and the equipment used now is largely all new,even down to the tuning of the reeds,This is now done by specially developed equipment,as he said,the old guys have retired or have died and young people don't want that type of work
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mselic

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Re: Salpa reeds
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2018, 03:20:36 AM »

I've been meaning to post an update about this for some time now...A few months ago I phoned up and spoke with Frank Romano, owner of FRM Enterprises, and asked him about the Salpa reeds he has advertised for sale on his website.  According to him, the Salpa reeds are NEW reeds and not old stock, and can be ordered in any key.  I asked him about the history of Salpa, and he confirmed that that company and Antonelli had merged to form Voci Armoniche, which now make different reeds.  I asked him if the Salpa reeds that he was providing would be the same as the previous Salpa reeds, and he guaranteed that they were the very same.  When I pursued my line of questioning a little more, he finally said (and I'm paraphrasing): "Look, if you use the exact same equipment and the exact same methods and material, are you not getting the same reeds?"  He also spoke of having a long standing relationship with the original reed makers.  When I asked him how long it would take to order a set of reeds in a key that he didn't have in stock, he said it would probably be a few months.

So....I'm not entirely sure what all of this means, but it sounds like potentially the old equipment is being used to produce the Salpa line.  Certainly, he claims that the original Salpa reed is still available to purchase through him.  Not sure what else to say!
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RogerT

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Re: Salpa reeds
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2018, 08:17:17 AM »

If there happened to be two identical boxes (let's say, a couple of Dino Baffettis) with same tuning/tremolo, one fitted with Salpa and another fitted with some other reed make, of similar quality, would it be possible to notice the difference in sound? So the test is a bit like a blind wine tasting.

Winston Smith

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Re: Salpa reeds
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2018, 09:47:37 AM »

I've just read mselic's post about spring coils and tension, which (to me) seems to be seeking the same sort of answer, but about a different application.

I would suggest that there could well be several answers, none of which would be either wholly right or wholly wrong! Here in Egypt, we have a pudding called Omm Ali, which loosely translates as Ali's mother's pudding. It's always slightly different, depending on the cook, but always near enough to bear the same name.

Surely it's likewise with reeds? Getting exactly the same quality of sound coupled with the perfect response is surely down to the final (currently human) adjustments of one sort or another, and therefore highly unlikely to be perfectly matched time and time again? (With the best will in the world!)

And springs are surely designed with many applications in mind, like; available space, effects on them by their working environment, number of compressions or expansions in its lifetime, cost of production? The list can go on and on! In both cases definitive answers will be very difficult to track down.

If your mate Mr Romano is using the original Salpa materials and machinery, operated by the same ex Salpa employees, then one would expect his reeds to have the same basic characteristics as the originals, although the name is probably protected by law, and he may be on dodgy ground there.

When all is said and done, I believe that we need to bear in kind that "a rose by any other name would smell as sweet"!
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Henry Piper

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Re: Salpa reeds
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2018, 10:22:51 AM »

I've just read mselic's post about spring coils and tension, which (to me) seems to be seeking the same sort of answer, but about a different application.

I would suggest that there could well be several answers, none of which would be either wholly right or wholly wrong! Here in Egypt, we have a pudding called Omm Ali, which loosely translates as Ali's mother's pudding. It's always slightly different, depending on the cook, but always near enough to bear the same name.

Surely it's likewise with reeds? Getting exactly the same quality of sound coupled with the perfect response is surely down to the final (currently human) adjustments of one sort or another, and therefore highly unlikely to be perfectly matched time and time again? (With the best will in the world!)

And springs are surely designed with many applications in mind, like; available space, effects on them by their working environment, number of compressions or expansions in its lifetime, cost of production? The list can go on and on! In both cases definitive answers will be very difficult to track down.

If your mate Mr Romano is using the original Salpa materials and machinery, operated by the same ex Salpa employees, then one would expect his reeds to have the same basic characteristics as the originals, although the name is probably protected by law, and he may be on dodgy ground there.

When all is said and done, I believe that we need to bear in kind that "a rose by any other name would smell as sweet"!


Ahhh !!    Um Ali, ….  is that not the rather delicious "Bread and butter Puddingy" confection made from old Croissants ??   I heard  that it was originally created by the Irish nanny of a rich Egyptian diplomat named Mrs O'Mally…..  ( the nanny not the Diplomat !! ) 

I'll get me Djellabah !!
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Re: Salpa reeds
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2018, 10:42:02 AM »

You could well be right, Mr Piper. They'll tell us tourists (and also anyone else, such as the U.N. Security Council etc etc......) anything which may get them a bit closer to what they want!
I'm sure that I've seen a report, somewhere, which claims that there's a melodeon depicted in some ancient hieroglyphic in one of the temples, reinforcing  the theory of the pyramid builders being time travellers.
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Charles Valashan

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Re: Salpa reeds
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2019, 06:10:56 PM »

I toured the Voci Armoniche factory September 2018.  Lorenzo was very nice gentleman & very informative.  He mentioned the merger.  I don't remember seeing any new high tech equipment, but he did explain and emphasis the the precision & detail needed.  He was trying to improve his manufacturing process - using six sigma kinda stuff.

I order a new, top of the line accordion at the time from Vignoni (what a mistake).  I pick it up this past June.  It came with Binci reeds (not what I specified) and I'm really disappointed.  The sound is not special and and the voicing is terrible- Bassoon is sluggish, piccolo and high clarinet weak, voicing is unreliable- I can't play softly, notes start to sound at different pressures.  So hand made does not equal high quality, especially with the work ethic of today's young people. 
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Re: Salpa reeds
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2019, 10:39:07 PM »

So hand made does not equal high quality, especially with the work ethic of today's young people.
I agree with the first part , second part is rather broad, I find (most) young folks work pretty hard.
It could also be the standard to which they are train, time in training ,ETC.
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theSmoiler

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Re: Salpa reeds
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2019, 11:42:58 PM »

If there happened to be two identical boxes (let's say, a couple of Dino Baffettis) with same tuning/tremolo, one fitted with Salpa and another fitted with some other reed make, of similar quality, would it be possible to notice the difference in sound? So the test is a bit like a blind wine tasting.

When the Baffetti Oakwood boxes started to be produced, with Binci reeds, they certainly sounded very different from the original Oakwoods - of which I've had 3 - with Salpa reeds.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Salpa reeds
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2019, 01:00:00 PM »

So hand made does not equal high quality, especially with the work ethic of today's young people.
I agree with the first part , second part is rather broad, I find (most) young folks work pretty hard.
It could also be the standard to which they are train, time in training ,ETC.

Two other  things:

1. The work ethic of the youngsters I know today is, generally,  higher than mine and my contempories, when young. Presumably, this is the result of having the need to excell drummed into them throughout their school lives.

2. Who's to say those responsible for the quality of manufacture and set up of the reeds in your box weren't middle aged experienced engineers and skilled workers having a bad day?

Seems a bit unfair to blame it on the young, without any facts. Maybe this was a throw away phrase, based on conventional prejudice..
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diatonix

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Re: Salpa reeds
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2019, 04:20:53 PM »

I order a new, top of the line accordion at the time from Vignoni (what a mistake).  I pick it up this past June.  It came with Binci reeds (not what I specified) and I'm really disappointed.  The sound is not special and and the voicing is terrible- Bassoon is sluggish, piccolo and high clarinet weak, voicing is unreliable- I can't play softly, notes start to sound at different pressures.  So hand made does not equal high quality, especially with the work ethic of today's young people.

Let's not jump to conclusions. It is entirely possible to build a poorly sounding instrument using top notch reeds. The reed maker (Binci, in your case) is not responsible for shortcomings in the construction (reed blocks, fondo and other components). Moreover, it is the box maker's responsibility to check/adjust every single reed before they end up on the blocks. It is also his responsibility to use suitable valves correctly. And last not least, in most cases you can't blame the reedmaker if the tuning is not up to par.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2019, 04:22:59 PM by diatonix »
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Mark Leue

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Re: Salpa reeds
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2019, 06:38:19 PM »

If there happened to be two identical boxes (let's say, a couple of Dino Baffettis) with same tuning/tremolo, one fitted with Salpa and another fitted with some other reed make, of similar quality, would it be possible to notice the difference in sound? So the test is a bit like a blind wine tasting.

When the Baffetti Oakwood boxes started to be produced, with Binci reeds, they certainly sounded very different from the original Oakwoods - of which I've had 3 - with Salpa reeds.

But I guess that wouldn't be surprising as Binci reeds are made at Binci and the new Salpa reeds are V.A.  I spent a long time today talking to Emilio Magnata today about these reeds branded Salpa made by Voci Armoniche. For what it's worth, he claims  they are the standard Voce a mano type reeds from this maker, rebranded for FRM.  Hard to know what to believe. Frank Romano (FRM Enterprises in Boston) and Emilio Accordians in NYC are competitors.
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