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Author Topic: Eighty English Dance Tunes produced/edited by Nick Barber  (Read 4645 times)

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Caroline

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Eighty English Dance Tunes produced/edited by Nick Barber
« on: July 18, 2018, 08:48:05 AM »

This is collection of tunes from 18th and 19th century sources - http://shop.nickworks.co.uk/product.aspx?product=1171&category=1&style=default

It’s really nicely presented with interesting notes, he sold out his first copies and will have some for sale at Sidmouth.  Big Band workshop enthusiasts will recognise some of them from earlier years :)

Now if someone could provide the abc for all of them as written  I would happily cough up a modest amount of cash  ;D
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Roger Hare

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Re: Eighty English Dance Tunes produced/edited by Nick Barber
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2018, 07:49:07 AM »

Now if someone could provide the abc for all of them as written  I would happily cough up a modest amount of cash  ;D

These days, one can't help wondering if it would be a 'good idea' for compilers of such collections to supply abc scripts as
a matter of course via an additional (paid-for?) download. I have one such mammoth abc script very kindly supplied gratis
by the author of such a compilation (*), and it's a very valuable resource (no, I'm not going to identify them).

Roger
(*)Much later edit: I should have said that I also bought the book - that's how I was in touch with t'compiler in the first
instance.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 05:51:38 AM by lachenal74693 »
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Caroline

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Re: Eighty English Dance Tunes produced/edited by Nick Barber
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2018, 12:15:32 PM »

Absolutely agree, some of these particular tunes I already have as abc but most I can’t even find:(
I’m one of the sad folks who can read the notes but not the tune, if that makes sense.
Caroline
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Re: Eighty English Dance Tunes produced/edited by Nick Barber
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2018, 12:21:23 PM »

Now if someone could provide the abc for all of them as written  I would happily cough up a modest amount of cash  ;D

These days, one can't help wondering if it would be a 'good idea' for compilers of such collections to supply abc scripts as
a matter of course via an additional (paid-for?) download. I have one such mammoth abc script very kindly supplied gratis
by the author of such a compilation, and it's a very valuable resource (no, I'm not going to identify them).

Roger

Now, there's a thought! I was thinking about  producing a CD to follow on from the book on tunes from the Yorkshire Dales that I have nearly completed, but downloadable ABCs might be a better way to go. I've always steered clear of ABC until now, but how hard can it be? Is Lester's introduction, written in 2015 for Melnet, still the best way into ABC for a beginner or has something better been produced more recently?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 12:27:00 PM by Bob Ellis »
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Re: Eighty English Dance Tunes produced/edited by Nick Barber
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2018, 12:54:44 PM »

"I was thinking about  producing a CD to follow on from the book"

Please don't forego this idea Bob, there are still some out there (me, first and foremost) who don't read either dots or ABC's.
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Helena Handcart

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Re: Eighty English Dance Tunes produced/edited by Nick Barber
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2018, 02:20:05 PM »

Another vote for abc for me - I have lots of lovely tune books sitting on the shelf but if I actually learn one of the tunes the first step is to convert to abc.

I like May's description of being able to read the notes but not the tune - that's exactly it for me. The joy of abc for me is that you don't need to be able to read it... and you don't need to be able to learn entirely by ear. You can be anywhere between the two extremes and abc will work for you.
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Roger Hare

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Re: Eighty English Dance Tunes produced/edited by Nick Barber
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2018, 02:41:24 PM »

...I’m one of the sad folks who can read the notes but not the tune, if that makes sense....
Caroline

I'm one of the sad folks who can't even read the notes, let alone the tune!

This means that for me, ABC is an essential prerequisite to learning a tune - I must be able
to play it back through an ABC editor player (I use EasyABC) or I quite simply can't learn the
tune - I have an ear which is on the tinny side...

Time to come clean - because I am unable to sight-read or mentally 'play' the tune from a score, I
have transcribed (the bulk of) the tunes in a couple of collections (two scarce, out-of-print books),
and one hand-written tune book posted on t'internet(*). These (and other ABC scripts) are like gold to
me - I couldn't survive without 'em. I can't make these available to others because of copyright law
and the 'ethics' behind the idea that one shouldn't pinch other folks tunes and transcribe them into
ABC (not wholesale, anyway). How much easier it would be for all, if these transcriptions were
made available 'by default' when a collection is published.

There - I've repeated what I said in my first post, but taken twice as much space to say it - that's
about par for the course for me!

It is encouraging though that at least some folks think it's a reasonable idea...

Now, there's a thought! I was thinking about  producing a CD to follow on from the book on tunes from the Yorkshire Dales that I have nearly completed, but downloadable ABCs might be a better way to go. I've always steered clear of ABC until now, but how hard can it be? Is Lester's introduction, written in 2015 for Melnet, still the best way into ABC for a beginner or has something better been produced more recently?

Perfect! I love music from t'North of England - even from Yorkshire ( ;) ) but don't get me wrong, I'm
talking about producing both a printed book and ABC scripts (and a CD in this case...).

Steve Mansfield's ABC tutorials at:

http://www.lesession.co.uk/abc/abc_notation.htm

are a pretty good way into ABC, and Guido Gonzato's manual at:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/abcplus/files/Abcplus/abcplus_en-2018-06-15.zip/download

is a useful reference guide (though strictly, it's as much a guide to the underlying programs; abcm2ps,
abc2midi, etc., as to ABC itself).

There's also a very handy 'tri-fold' ABC reference card at:

http://www.stephenmerrony.co.uk/uploads/ABCquickRefv0_6.pdf

Roger

(*) I add concertina tabs too, to make it even 'easier'.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 03:46:59 PM by lachenal74693 »
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Re: Eighty English Dance Tunes produced/edited by Nick Barber
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2018, 02:48:50 PM »

My posting was to encourage Bob to issue a CD too, not to do away with the ABC's which other people obviously prefer. (Just before the Thought Police jump on me for my uncaring attitude towards the poor ABCers.)
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Eighty English Dance Tunes produced/edited by Nick Barber
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2018, 08:57:47 PM »

The whole point about abc notation is that it is a simple method of storing tunes. You don't necessarily read the abc notation directly, though some people do.

Once copy and pasted into an abc engine, you produce dots and a sound file. This enables you to sight read the dots or listen to the tune thereby satisfying sight readers, ear learners or those somewhere in-between, which is a lot of us including me.
Once you get your head around it you'll realise how dead good abc is!
Q

« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 09:20:39 PM by Thrupenny Bit »
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I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Winston Smith

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Re: Eighty English Dance Tunes produced/edited by Nick Barber
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2018, 09:20:42 PM »

Creates a sound file?
OK, Q, I'll take your kidding and maybe have a go at that, possibilities eh? Thanks. (Now I just need to get over my technophobia.)
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Re: Eighty English Dance Tunes produced/edited by Nick Barber
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2018, 11:44:32 PM »

What Q  said Winston, the abc files are tiny to store compared to sound files and while the ability to play them is an essential learning aid for me (through a poor quality MIDI accordion as I can't find anything better) as many of the tunes may have been transcribed from other instruments the techno bit allows you to transpose them to suit the boxes you have without knowing how to do that musically.

As many of those collections being transcribed are pretty ancient there is not a copyright issue and if someone abc's from original sources or from a modern transcription that does not change the original I'm not sure that there is an issue there either legal or moral, no doubt those actively engaged in this area can shed more light on this.

Tis well worthwhile downloading one of the free ABC programs and having a play and there are loads of previous threads on the benefits or otherwise of the various ones out there.

Oh, having checked with Big Brother Central I find from your post code that you are only authorised to play Winster Gallop or Morpeth Rant so may be overkill, burn all your other music quickly before the detector vans get you............
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Roger Hare

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Re: Eighty English Dance Tunes produced/edited by Nick Barber
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2018, 07:07:14 AM »

Another vote for abc for me - I have lots of lovely tune books sitting on the shelf but if I actually learn one of the tunes the first step is to convert to abc...

Exactly. This is precisely what I do.

...As many of those collections being transcribed are pretty ancient there is not a copyright issue and if someone abc's from original sources or from a modern transcription that does not change the original I'm not sure that there is an issue there either legal or moral, no doubt those actively engaged in this area can shed more light on this....

This is true as far as older collections are concerned (eg: my current favourite - Kohler's Violin Repository in the National
Library of Scotland archives), but there are modern collections/compilations which are out-of-print and hard to find. These
are still in copyright, and it is these which present as a 'problem' in this context when transcribing a tune into ABC. There
are also existing ABC collections which are (probably?) the copyright of the original transcriber. What do I do if I modify
the ABC to my 'standard' form, (eg: I always use L:1/8) and add tabs and chords? The script is now more or less
unrecognisable. Do I still retain the identity of the original author/compiler/editor/transcriber, or do I mark myself up as
the transcriber?  What do I do if I can't find a particular tune anywhere (as posed by the OP)? I have one collection
with some absolutely fantastic tunes, but which I simply can't find on t'internet...

Doesn't matter a hoot if I'm going to keep a modified/'plagiarised' script to myself, but it possibly does matter if I ever
pass it on to someone else - it is that which 'rattles my chain'.

Roger
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 07:59:50 AM by lachenal74693 »
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Re: Eighty English Dance Tunes produced/edited by Nick Barber
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2018, 08:26:03 AM »

There are also existing ABC collections which are (probably?) the copyright of the original transcriber. What do I do if I modify the ABC to my 'standard' form, (eg: I always use L:1/8) and add tabs and chords? The script is now more or less unrecognisable. Do I still retain the identity of the original author/compiler/editor/transcriber, or do I mark myself up as the transcriber?

ABC allows as many Z: headers as you like, so the first one can be the original transcriber, and the rest can list who's edited it, in chronological order. That's what I do anyway, if I think it might matter, and seems to be the honest approach.
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Re: Eighty English Dance Tunes produced/edited by Nick Barber
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2018, 09:52:35 AM »

I wonder if Chris would have any comments on this discussion. I seem to think he's a member.

[Edit] my senior moments are getting more frequent (I forgot to put my teeth in before I went to work the other day). Chris Barber is, of course,  an eminent musician, but  a very different musician to Nick Barber, the man I really meant to name  :|bl
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 09:03:02 PM by Tone Dumb Greg »
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Caroline

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Re: Eighty English Dance Tunes produced/edited by Nick Barber
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2018, 06:57:24 PM »

I wonder if Chris would have any comments on this discussion. I seem to think he's a member.
Chris who?
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Re: Eighty English Dance Tunes produced/edited by Nick Barber
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2018, 07:19:18 PM »

I have this book.   For those who read dots, there are some superb and interesting tunes there.   Worth every penny - it'll keep me going for years. 

Joy
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Re: Eighty English Dance Tunes produced/edited by Nick Barber
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2018, 08:40:36 PM »

Chris who?

Chris Partington from the Village Music Project, posts on here as ChrisP. The VMPs stance on the question of transcribing music is quite clear, no copyright material will be transcribed, no public domain material will be transcribed if there is an in print book like Thompson 5, the Vickers manuscript (The Great Northern Tune Book) and so on available to buy.
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Re: Eighty English Dance Tunes produced/edited by Nick Barber
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2018, 09:01:19 PM »

I wonder if Chris would have any comments on this discussion. I seem to think he's a member.
Chris who?

See amendment above   :|bl
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Caroline

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Re: Eighty English Dance Tunes produced/edited by Nick Barber
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2018, 09:11:21 PM »

I asked Nick, he said there are no plans for abc of the tunes......
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Re: Eighty English Dance Tunes produced/edited by Nick Barber
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2018, 09:10:10 PM »

The book was typeset in Sibelius, but I can convert the Sibelius notation to ABC. I will do the conversion, and place the ABC file on my website when it's done.
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