Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Richard Shaul]

Hi, just been reading some old posts on dedic tuning, which prompted a thought. With normal m/m+ tuning then presumably the wetter you get, the more out of tune you get. So does this make a wet dedic tuned melodeon more acceptable to other musicians?

[Steve_freereeder]

...With normal m/m+ tuning then presumably the wetter you get, the more out of tune you get.

Yes.

So does this make a wet dedic tuned melodeon more acceptable to other musicians?

Yes - that's the whole point of Dedic (a.k.a Viennese) tuning.
When tuned M^- M⁺, the perceived pitch to the listener will be midway between, i.e. M⁰. This will also be in tune with the basses and chords, if they are tuned at pitch.

[Rog]

...but you can’t use this type of tuning on an LMM box.

[Tone Dumb Greg]

...but you can’t use this type of tuning on an LMM box.

What if you tune the L to A=440 and don't use single M voicings?

[Helena Handcart]

What if you tune the L to A=440 and don't use single M voicings?

Hmmm... maybe, but doesn't that rather miss the point of having  an LMM?  Although  many LMM boxes don't offer the luxury of independently-switched M voicings - just MM or LMM.

[mselic]

...but you can’t use this type of tuning on an LMM box.

There are LMMH boxes tuned to Dedic tuning that sound fine.

[Rog]

If you want octaves with no tremolo and you can select LM or MH on a Dedic tuned LMMH box, you will get 'vibration' ...which some people don’t mind, but which will not be an in-tune octave.

[george garside]

does dedic tuning work on a 3 voice MMM box?

george

[Lester]

does dedic tuning work on a 3 voice MMM box?

george

Yes M-, M, M+

[mselic]

If you want octaves with no tremolo and you can select LM or MH on a Dedic tuned LMMH box, you will get 'vibration' ...which some people don’t mind, but which will not be an in-tune octave.

Yes - I’m actually one of the people that wouldn’t like it! However, as a four-voice, it works. There have been a few examples posted here in the past. Clement Breton used to tune some of his 4-stop boxes this way.

[Steve_freereeder]

...but you can’t use this type of tuning on an LMM box.

It depends on the available voice switching.

(1) If you have only a single stop to bring in the L voice - yes, you can use Dedic/Viennese tuning: L⁰ M^- M⁺ will work OK. The two M voices should give you a perceived pitch of M⁰, which will sound acceptably in tune with the L⁰ voice.

(2) However, if you have switches which allow you select individual M voices as well as the L voice, then Dedic/Viennese tuning is not such a good idea. One reason to have such a switching arrangement is to be able to select the bandoneon setting LM, but these have to be in octave unison, i.e. L⁰ M⁰, otherwise the combinations, say, of L⁰ M^-, or L⁰ M⁺ sound horrible.

In the case of (2), I would always recommend non-Dedic tuning: L⁰ M⁰ M⁺.

[Anahata]

combinations, say, of L⁰ M^-, or L⁰ M⁺ sound horrible.

Available on some PA's , labelled 'Saxophone'   

(that would be L with M⁺. L and M⁰ are also available on those systems)

[Steve_freereeder]

combinations, say, of L⁰ M^-, or L⁰ M⁺ sound horrible.

Available on some PA's , labelled 'Saxophone'   

Yes I know - and it's an insult to saxophones   
(Glorious instruments IMHO)

[Chris Ryall]

combinations, say, of L⁰ M^-, or L⁰ M⁺ sound horrible.

I have this on my van der Aa compact. It actually works fine for me as for solos, improvisation, song, or just "joining in" I tend to use L⁰, or L⁰/M⁰, the latter "bandonèon", or close to.

My third voice is M⁺, and yes, it melds harshly. Useful though when you want to start a tune but not lose control of it? So I tend to commence is a soft voicing, and kick in the 3-voice if I find myself facing "an opposing tide". Horses for courses?

[IanD]

Hi, just been reading some old posts on dedic tuning, which prompted a thought. With normal m/m+ tuning then presumably the wetter you get, the more out of tune you get. So does this make a wet dedic tuned melodeon more acceptable to other musicians?

One of TCBs fiddle players has perfect pitch. When I first got my box tuned "my way" she said "At last, an in-tune melodeon that I can tune to!".

Othe fiddlers (and concertina players, and...) have also signalled their approval on many occasions...

Ian (Dedic)

[tirpous]

but these have to be in octave unison, i.e. L0 M0, otherwise the combinations, say, of L0 M-, or L0 M+ sound horrible.

Seems to me this is a rather sweeping statement.  Individual taste, the degree of wetness on M reeds and musical context come into play.

Anyway, I have a 4-voice 1-row with the M reeds tuned +5/-5 nominally, and it sounds fine in LM- or LM-H. It's not so great with LM+ or LM+H, but certainly not horrible.  (IMO of course  )

[Steve_freereeder]

but these have to be in octave unison, i.e. L0 M0, otherwise the combinations, say, of L0 M-, or L0 M+ sound horrible.

Seems to me this is a rather sweeping statement.  Individual taste, the degree of wetness on M reeds and musical context come into play.

Yes, I accept there is a certain amount of subjectivity about this, as in all things to do with tuning; and maybe my 'horrible' is someone else's 'seems OK to me'.

However, quite often my experience with tuning for other people is that they do not realise just how out of tune their instrument is, until it is pointed out to them and you sit them down with their box and get them to really listen to the sound of each note. The response is often along the lines of 'OMG, I hadn't realised it was so bad!'

Anyway, I have a 4-voice 1-row with the M reeds tuned +5/-5 nominally, and it sounds fine in LM^- or LM^-H. It's not so great with LM⁺ or LM⁺H, but certainly not horrible.

To me this difference suggests that the nominal +5/-5 cents tuning may now not be quite as evenly applied as originally intended; perhaps the tuning has drifted since it was last done. Maybe by now the amount by which the M⁺ reeds are sharp is greater than the amount the M^- reeds are flat. This could cause the difference which you have noticed.

[mselic]

Here is an example of LM-M+H (I believe this is tirpous’ box):

https://youtu.be/aSLpyKy3TCw

I think it sounds quite good.

[Steve_freereeder]

Here is an example of LM-M+H (I believe this is tirpous’ box):

https://youtu.be/aSLpyKy3TCw

I think it sounds quite good.

Yes - it's nice. But both M reeds are switched in, therefore the discordant asymmetry of LM⁺H or LM^-H does not occur.

[John MacKenzie (Cugiok)]

I don't  much like tremolo, being as I am surrounded by PA's up here in Scotland, my teeth are often set on edge. Although you are mostly talking 3 voice + boxes, I will just mention that I have recently got an Erika, which is tuned +/- 4/5 cents, and I am really enjoying it. It's odd, but the dryness in the old Hohner is much more acceptable, than the standard dry tuning on so many Costalottis which are supplied as dry tuned. I don't know if this is to do with ali reed plates as opposed to zinc, or what, but I did not get on with the Hascy that I bought, and quickly resold (at a loss!), as I didn't like the sound at all.
Still horses for courses. I am now definitely ahn old Hohner man, and not a TOTR Castagnari man.

Sir John