Topic: Would it be ridiculous to try to tune my four stop in C to D? (Read 2869 times)

Cam Button · « **on:** August 07, 2018, 07:09:13 PM »

Good Morning Melnet,
I like my Hohner 114 in C, but I think that I would like it more if it was in D. I have no budget to send my box out for repair so I would have to change the pitch myself. I'm a retired aviation mechanic so I have a bit of ability, and access to tools. I also have no idea about what I'm doing.
I have two 113's to practice on first, as they both need repair. This may or may not be a horrible idea.
Would it be ridiculous to try to tune my four stop in C to D?
Have a great day.
Cam

Winston Smith · « **Reply #1 on:** August 07, 2018, 07:21:58 PM »

Which keys are the 113's? They may be a source of replacement reeds. I would imagine that some of the original reeds would file up, and some would swap about; but I'm certain that some just wouldn't!

Theo · « **Reply #2 on:** August 07, 2018, 07:26:33 PM »

Filing to raise pitch by a whole tone is unlikely to be successful for most of the reeds.

Cam Button · « **Reply #3 on:** August 07, 2018, 08:12:10 PM »

Darn it, i was going to delete this bad idea before y'all were subjected to it. Winston the 113s are in G and D. Thank both of you for your input.

tirpous · « **Reply #4 on:** August 07, 2018, 08:48:45 PM »

If you have a 113 in D, you can transfer its reeds to the 114. Get a set of D piccolo reeds and you have your 4-stop in D. You could move the C reeds to the donor 113.

mselic · « **Reply #5 on:** August 07, 2018, 09:07:47 PM »

Quote from: tirpous on August 07, 2018, 08:48:45 PM

If you have a 113 in D, you can transfer its reeds to the 114. Get a set of D piccolo reeds and you have your 4-stop in D. You could move the C reeds to the donor 113.

I would agree by long and far that this would be your best bet.

Cam Button · « **Reply #6 on:** August 07, 2018, 11:30:20 PM »

That is an excellent idea about swapping into the 114.

Rog · « **Reply #7 on:** August 08, 2018, 06:23:58 AM »

You'll probably find shifting the reeds about on these instruments challenging enough. They don’t have removable reedblocks.

Tone Dumb Greg · « **Reply #8 on:** August 08, 2018, 08:32:57 AM »

I just wondered, do you actually need to replace all the reeds? There is a full set of LMM D reeds available, in this case, but, generally, speaking, where this isn't the case, given that five out of the seven notes of the scale are the same, could you "just" (and I realise it may be a big just) move everything down 1, add the missing notes at the high end and retune the Fs and the Cs?

rees · « **Reply #9 on:** August 08, 2018, 10:02:28 AM »

Quote from: Tone Dumb Greg on August 08, 2018, 08:32:57 AM

I just wondered, do you actually need to replace all the reeds? There is a full set of LMM D reeds available, in this case, but, generally, speaking, where this isn't the case, given that five out of the seven notes of the scale are the same, could you "just" (and I realise it may be a big just) move everything down 1, add the missing notes at the high end and retune the Fs and the Cs?

I can't see how that would work as the notes would be paired on the wrong plates.
C scale pairs - C/D E/F G/A B/C etc.
D scale pairs - D/E F#/G A/B C#/D etc.

Tone Dumb Greg · « **Reply #10 on:** August 08, 2018, 11:08:54 AM »

Quote from: Rees on August 08, 2018, 10:02:28 AM

I can't see how that would work as the notes would be paired on the wrong plates.
C scale pairs - C/D E/F G/A B/C etc.
D scale pairs - D/E F#/G A/B C#/D etc.

Ah! Hadn't thought of that. Cancel thought.

Winston Smith · « **Reply #11 on:** August 08, 2018, 12:16:16 PM »

A little "drift" if you don't mind?

Rees, are the blocks glued in on your lovely instruments?

rees · « **Reply #12 on:** August 08, 2018, 02:20:34 PM »

Quote from: Winston Smith on August 08, 2018, 12:16:16 PM

A little "drift" if you don't mind?

Rees, are the blocks glued in on your lovely instruments?

The Clipper and Corvette have Cajun style blocks, two flat, two upright, all glued in.
The Windjammer has two upright blocks, removable.

gettabettabox · « **Reply #13 on:** August 08, 2018, 02:45:15 PM »

I would be inclined to repair and make playable the HA113 in D. The beauty of the three voice boxes lies in their weight, saving maybe 3 to 4 ounces/100 gms due to one less reed bank and having shorter, lighter bellows.
Noticeable in handling to me and a nice enough sound.
If that pleases your ear, it may do for you or if still hungry for the piccolo, then consider the reed transfer option.
I have got to the stage in my addiction, where, when a box plays nicely with good response, it is best to leave it be! ..and yes... it will always be in the wrong key.

Graham Spencer · « **Reply #14 on:** August 08, 2018, 05:16:03 PM »

Quote from: gettabettabox on August 08, 2018, 02:45:15 PM

having shorter, lighter bellows.

Well, my HA114 in G has 14 folds, and my C HA114 and A HA113 both have 16 folds.......

Graham

gettabettabox · « **Reply #15 on:** August 08, 2018, 06:50:25 PM »

Yes, many variations according to age and key.The G and A boxes are normally blessed with more folds for obvious reasons. (..but I have had later, gold ended G boxes with shorter bellows.) In general though, the two and three voice HA’s have shorter and lighter bellows.
Hohner were cost conscious.

mselic · « **Reply #16 on:** August 08, 2018, 07:32:18 PM »

Quote from: gettabettabox on August 08, 2018, 06:50:25 PM

Yes, many variations according to age and key.The G and A boxes are normally blessed with more folds for obvious reasons. (..but I have had later, gold ended G boxes with shorter bellows.) In general though, the two and three voice HA’s have shorter and lighter bellows.
Hohner were cost conscious.

The G and A boxes didn’t have longer bellows because they were potentially air hungry (if that’s what you are suggesting) - the older boxes simply had longer bellows, regardless of key, and they progressively got shorter as the years went on. It’s true that the 113s and 112s always had shorter bellows than 114s. 114s in A generally had longer bellows because, as far as I know, they stopped making them in that key back when they still supplied the longer, silver-taped bellows.

Incidentally, does anyone know if they ever made 114s in any key other than G, A, C and D?

Lester · « **Reply #17 on:** August 08, 2018, 07:41:30 PM »

Quote from: mselic on August 08, 2018, 07:32:18 PM

Incidentally, does anyone know if they ever made 114s in any key other than G, A, C and D?

Probably not by Hohner but I have one in Bb after it had a discussion with my tuning tools and one in Eminor, well sort of, it's a D box with D/Emin basses.

gettabettabox · « **Reply #18 on:** August 08, 2018, 11:58:41 PM »

Quote mselic. “The G and A boxes didn’t have longer bellows because they were potentially air hungry (if that’s what you are suggesting) - the older boxes simply had longer bellows, regardless of key, and they progressively got shorter as the years went on. It’s true that the 113s and 112s always had shorter bellows than 114s.”

Correct! Wishful thinking on my part.

All of my silver ended 4 stop models, irrespective of key, have the same 17 fold bellows.

Cam Button · « **Reply #19 on:** August 09, 2018, 01:33:13 AM »

I think I should repair the Hohner Presswood in A /D as a beginning player, and then fix the 113 in D. I keep running out of bellows with the one row box. I've been using the Hohner guide to playing for a few weeks.

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Author Topic: Would it be ridiculous to try to tune my four stop in C to D? (Read 2869 times)