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Author Topic: Ideas for improving the chromaticity of the keyboard layout.  (Read 13361 times)

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j.b.c.

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Re: Ideas for improving the chromaticity of the keyboard layout.
« Reply #100 on: September 02, 2018, 05:42:33 PM »

As provisional as it may be, I'm struggling to see patterns for scales progression, either row-by-row or cross-rows. Maybe later iterations of your layout yield better results in this respect.

There are two separate parts to the layout puzzle.

The first is choosing the which 6 notes are uni-sonoric and which 6 are bi-sonoric.  The harmonic analysis part as it were.

The second part is how best to tile the keyboard once the tone choices have been made.  I haven't really considered this yet.

.
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Gena Crisman

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Re: Ideas for improving the chromaticity of the keyboard layout.
« Reply #101 on: September 02, 2018, 08:14:28 PM »

Is the scale result that was posted also suspect?

It is not only suspect.  It is incorrect.

Here is a hopefully corrected version of 3638, but subtle(r) errors may remain.

Code: [Select]
40 <== score  iteration ==>  3638    {0, 2, 5, 6, 7, 10}
   d [0, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11]
   p [0, 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10]
   draw
     scales
        major C F G
        minor G
        superloc F#
     chords
        C C- Csus2 Csus4 C6 Cmaj7 C7 Cadd9 C9 C69
        D Dm D+ Dsus2 Dsus4 D6 Dm6 D7 Dm7 Dadd9 D69
        Em Esus2 Esus4 Em7 Em7b5
        F F- Fsus2 Fsus4 F6 Fmaj7 F9 F69
        F#+ F#- F#m7b5
        G Gm Gsus2 Gsus4 G6 Gm6 Gmaj7 GmM7 G7 Gm7 Gadd9 G9 G69
        Am Asus2 Asus4 Am6 Am7
        Bb Bb+ Bb- Bbsus2 Bb6 Bbmaj7 Bb9 Bb69
        Bm Bsus4 BmM7 Bm7 Bm7b5
   press
        major C# Eb G#
        minor Eb
        superloc D
     chords
        Cm Csus2 Csus4 Cm7 Cm7b5
        C# C#- C#sus2 C#sus4 C#6 C#maj7 C#9 C#69
        D+ D- Dm7b5
        Eb Ebm Ebsus2 Ebsus4 Eb6 Ebm6 Ebmaj7 EbmM7 Eb7 Ebm7 Ebadd9 Eb9 Eb69
        Fm Fsus2 Fsus4 Fm6 Fm7
        F# F#+ F#- F#sus2 F#6 F#maj7 F#9 F#69
        Gm Gsus4 GmM7 Gm7 Gm7b5
        G# G#- G#sus2 G#sus4 G#6 G#maj7 G#7 G#add9 G#9 G#69
        Bb Bbm Bb+ Bbsus2 Bbsus4 Bb6 Bbm6 Bb7 Bbm7 Bbadd9 Bb69

So, I don't know if this will work very well for you. If you consider any of the scales that exist on your right side and their diatonic chords:
Reference & Available on Draw due to the full scale being available:
C major Draw ( C Dm Em F G Am Bdim ), F major Draw ( F Gm Am Bb C Dm Edim ) and G major Draw ( G Am Bm C D Em F#dim )

and look for those in the other direction, you find that the population is sparse (this is what I could see):
C major Press: ( ... ) F major Press (Bb) and G major Press ( ... )

Compare this to GCF:
C major Draw ( C Dm Em F G Am ), F major Draw ( F Gm Am Bb C Dm ) and G major Draw ( G Am Bm C D Em )
C major Press ( C Dm Em F G Am ), F major Press ( F Am C Dm ) and G major Press ( G Am C Em )

(NB - the diminished chords are probably available but I couldn't recognise them in your listing. GCF is not a bad system.)

If you consider your press C#, Eb and G# scales, you'll find these chords are also basically only functionally playable in one direction. If you intend to play these chords regularly, you would be in danger of finding yourself with either too much, or no, air in your bellows. But, I'm not sure that you if you are seeing the problem that I am seeing with that. I think you could definitely improve on a standard 3 row 3 key layout, and many people already have, but I think you're pushing this algorithm to deliver more scales, keys and chords, and it's taking it too far outside of what might really be playable.

Plus you're still not including your left hand side ideas at all. Surely a set of Unisonic basses would be a) a whole lower octave, reducing your need for such a long scale RHS and b) let you play anything you want to and diminish the need for voicing every note for RHS chords?

I just want to re-emphasise: they have to be bad at something. If you need all the notes in one direction for chords, but then tell it to find as many chords and scales as it can, you'll end up with solutions like this, with those chords only working in that one direction.
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j.b.c.

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Re: Ideas for improving the chromaticity of the keyboard layout.
« Reply #102 on: September 02, 2018, 08:32:41 PM »


(NB - the diminished chords are probably available but I couldn't recognise them in your listing. GCF is not a bad system.)


I am not presently scanning for diminished chords, only half-diminished.  I will add the diminished triad.

I probably should score the sieve on chords rather than scales. 
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Ideas for improving the chromaticity of the keyboard layout.
« Reply #103 on: September 05, 2018, 07:27:57 PM »

If you want to check out all chords, also available run of scales use melodeon explorer on my site.

  https://chrisryall.net/chords/

Type your layout into the lower box as a "rodex" and press the [!!] button to build the model

Do select/copy/paste/save to a text file first! You can prefix with a number to set octave of the notes (sorry, its octaves start on A). buttons under the simulation set tonic and chord to be examined. Left end also works, assuming 1+5 chords there. ">" arrows act as insetting tabs.

Try some some of the presets to explore the explorer first 😉 Do NOT touch the Ryanair gadget 😈
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j.b.c.

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Re: Ideas for improving the chromaticity of the keyboard layout.
« Reply #104 on: September 05, 2018, 08:24:10 PM »

If you want to check out all chords, also available run of scales use melodeon explorer on my site.

  https://chrisryall.net/chords/



That's a neat web application!

Unfortunately,  I'm sieving all the possible noval keyboard mapping for all their contained chords.

I've written a little Python script to do this so that I can then perform a statistical analysis on the chord set.

I see you have the "Loomes" or "Whole Step" mapping.

That mapping demonstrates the many compromises one has to balance.

The Noval Wholestep mapping is extreamly fair, uniform, and has a rich harmonic structure.

But *because* it is so uniform it has the disadvantage that it shares no simple triads between push and draw.  It forces a lot of reversals.  Gena pointed out the importance that the mapping breath well.

Here is what the Wholestep mapping looks like:
Code: [Select]
12 <== score  iteration ==>  7445    {0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10}
   d [0, 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10]
   p [0, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11]
   draw
     scales
     chords
        C# C#m C#+ C#sus4 C#6 C#m6 C#maj7 C#mM7
        Ab+ Ab-
        Bb Bbm Bb+ Bb- Bbm- Bbsus2 Bbmaj7 BbmM7 Bb7 Bbm7 Bbm7b5 Bbadd9 Bb9
        F Fm F+ Fsus4 F6 Fm6 Fmaj7 FmM7
        C+ C-
        D Dm D+ D- Dm- Dsus2 Dmaj7 DmM7 D7 Dm7 Dm7b5 Dadd9 D9
        A Am A+ Asus4 A6 Am6 Amaj7 AmM7
        E+ E-
        F# F#m F#+ F#- F#m- F#sus2 F#maj7 F#mM7 F#7 F#m7 F#m7b5 F#add9 F#9
   push
     scales
     chords
        Ab Abm Ab+ Ab- Abm- Absus2 Abmaj7 AbmM7 Ab7 Abm7 Abm7b5 Abadd9 Ab9
        Eb Ebm Eb+ Ebsus4 Eb6 Ebm6 Ebmaj7 EbmM7
        Bb+ Bb-
        C Cm C+ C- Cm- Csus2 Cmaj7 CmM7 C7 Cm7 Cm7b5 Cadd9 C9
        G Gm G+ Gsus4 G6 Gm6 Gmaj7 GmM7
        D+ D-
        E Em E+ E- Em- Esus2 Emaj7 EmM7 E7 Em7 Em7b5 Eadd9 E9
        B Bm B+ Bsus4 B6 Bm6 Bmaj7 BmM7
        F#+ F#-
   in push_and_draw
     chords
        Ab+ Ab-
        Bb+ Bb-
        C+ C-
        D+ D-
        E+ E-
        F#+ F#-
   in push_or_draw
     chords
        C# C#+ C#6 C#m C#m6 C#mM7 C#maj7 C#sus4
        Ab Ab+ Ab- Ab7 Ab9 Abadd9 Abm Abm- Abm7 Abm7b5 AbmM7 Abmaj7 Absus2
        Eb Eb+ Eb6 Ebm Ebm6 EbmM7 Ebmaj7 Ebsus4
        Bb Bb+ Bb- Bb7 Bb9 Bbadd9 Bbm Bbm- Bbm7 Bbm7b5 BbmM7 Bbmaj7 Bbsus2
        F F+ F6 Fm Fm6 FmM7 Fmaj7 Fsus4
        C C+ C- C7 C9 Cadd9 Cm Cm- Cm7 Cm7b5 CmM7 Cmaj7 Csus2
        G G+ G6 Gm Gm6 GmM7 Gmaj7 Gsus4
        D D+ D- D7 D9 Dadd9 Dm Dm- Dm7 Dm7b5 DmM7 Dmaj7 Dsus2
        A A+ A6 Am Am6 AmM7 Amaj7 Asus4
        E E+ E- E7 E9 Eadd9 Em Em- Em7 Em7b5 EmM7 Emaj7 Esus2
        B B+ B6 Bm Bm6 BmM7 Bmaj7 Bsus4
        F# F#+ F#- F#7 F#9 F#add9 F#m F#m- F#m7 F#m7b5 F#mM7 F#maj7 F#sus2
    simple triads
        C# C#m
        Ab Abm
        Eb Ebm
        Bb Bbm
        F Fm
        C Cm
        G Gm
        D Dm
        A Am
        E Em
        B Bm
        F# F#m
    126 chords in iteration  7445
    12 in common from  126 total in iteration  7445
    24 simple triads with 0 in common from 126 in iteration  7445
    0 common triads from 24 of 126 in iteration  7445

Its got all the trivial triads, but shares none of them between push and pull.  Its only sharing diminished and augmented triads on every other key around the circle of fifths.

Every other key around the circle of fifths is weak.

I have been searching for the best mappings who's distributions of chords are skewed towards friendly common keys, at the expense of being unfavorable to keys with lots of sharps or flats.  Of necessity these mappings have less uniform keyboard layouts.

I like mappings with chord distributions that look like this (NB- for the purpose of demonstrating skew):
Code: [Select]
   in push_and_draw
     chords
        F F6 F69 F9 Fmaj7 Fsus2
        C C6 C69 Csus2 Csus4
        Gsus2 Gsus4
        Dm Dm7 Dsus2 Dsus4
        Am Am7 Asus4
   in push_or_draw
     chords
        C#+ C#- C#m- C#m7b5
        Ab+ Ab-
        Eb+ Eb-
        Bb Bb+ Bb- Bb6 Bb69 Bb7 Bb9 Bbadd9 Bbmaj7 Bbsus2
        F F+ F- F6 F69 F7 F9 Fadd9 Fm Fm6 FmM7 Fmaj7 Fsus2 Fsus4
        C C+ C- C6 C69 C7 C9 Cadd9 Cm Cm6 CmM7 Cmaj7 Csus2 Csus4
        G G+ G- G6 G69 G7 Gadd9 Gm Gm6 Gm7 GmM7 Gsus2 Gsus4
        D D+ D- D7 Dadd9 Dm Dm- Dm6 Dm7 Dm7b5 DmM7 Dsus2 Dsus4
        A A+ A- A7 Aadd9 Am Am- Am6 Am7 Am7b5 AmM7 Asus2 Asus4
        E+ E- Em Em- Em6 Em7 Em7b5 EmM7 Esus4
        B+ B- Bm- Bm7b5
        F#+ F#- F#m- F#m7b5
    simple triads
        Bb
        F Fm
        C Cm
        G Gm
        D Dm
        A Am
        Em
    102 chords in iteration  63
    20 in common from  102 total in iteration  63
    12 simple triads with 4 in common from 102 in iteration  63
    4 common triads from 12 of 102 in iteration  63

If has fewer cords, but a more practical distribution.

I'm now looking at mappings with respect to the ease of sourcing the reedplates they require, and also the simplicity of the resulting fingerings.

I'm well down the rabbit's hole.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 08:41:15 PM by j.b.c. »
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Richard Shaul

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Re: Ideas for improving the chromaticity of the keyboard layout.
« Reply #105 on: September 05, 2018, 10:36:23 PM »

A Python script! is that as in Monty Python? we haven't seen one of them in a few years.
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Anahata

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Re: Ideas for improving the chromaticity of the keyboard layout.
« Reply #106 on: September 05, 2018, 11:30:27 PM »

is that as in Monty Python?
Python: the 2nd most popular programming language in the world, according to some sources.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Ideas for improving the chromaticity of the keyboard layout.
« Reply #107 on: September 06, 2018, 12:47:07 AM »

is that as in Monty Python?
Python: the 2nd most popular programming language in the world, according to some sources.

Even a relatively computer illiterate old fart like me has been known to have used it.
[Edit: forced to use it with Blender, on a gaming project]
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 12:49:48 AM by Tone Dumb Greg »
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Anahata

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Re: Ideas for improving the chromaticity of the keyboard layout.
« Reply #108 on: September 06, 2018, 08:36:17 AM »

The reference to Monty Python is relevant though: the language was invented by Guido Van Rossum, who had been reading the published Monty Python's Flying Circus scripts at the time, and he was looking for a short and memorable name for his new language...
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 12:09:10 PM by Anahata »
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Chris Rayner

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Re: Ideas for improving the chromaticity of the keyboard layout.
« Reply #109 on: September 06, 2018, 09:11:54 AM »

<Vroop!! Vroooooooppp!!> Thread drift alarm.
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