Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Shoe-horn a C# reed into 20 key Anglo concertina?  (Read 1079 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

RogerT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1575
  • can't walk past a box w'out picking it up...
    • Jolly Roger Accordions
Shoe-horn a C# reed into 20 key Anglo concertina?
« on: July 20, 2018, 07:17:45 AM »

Has anyone tried substituting the low pull D for a C# on the G row of a 20key CG Anglo concertina? This note is repeated (D pull) on the C row so it seems to me you lose nothing, but gain the ability to play a full D scale.
I tried asking this on concertina.net but so far haven’t had any response (maybe it’s a heresy  (:) )

Anahata

  • This mind intentionally left blank
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4918
  • Oakwood D/G, C/F Club, 1-rows in C,D,G
    • Treewind Music
Re: Shoe-horn a C# reed into 20 key Anglo concertina?
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2018, 08:33:40 AM »

I couldn't understand what you meant for a moment, then I remembered that my current and previous Anglos have had that button changed to A. (they are three row instruments so don't need a C♯ there, but the A is nice to have)
So at least there is some precedent for changing that button from D pull to something else.

Warning: you'll be wanting a C♯ an octave higher then!
Logged
I'm a melodeon player. What's your excuse?
Music recording and web hosting: www.treewind.co.uk
Mary Humphreys and Anahata: www.maryanahata.co.uk
Ceilidh bands: www.fourhandband.co.uk www.barleycoteband.co.uk

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2097
  • DG Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, old CF Hohner
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Shoe-horn a C# reed into 20 key Anglo concertina?
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2018, 08:55:38 AM »

Has anyone tried substituting the low pull D for a C# on the G row of a 20key CG Anglo concertina? This note is repeated (D pull) on the C row so it seems to me you lose nothing, but gain the ability to play a full D scale.
I tried asking this on concertina.net but so far haven’t had any response (maybe it’s a heresy  (:) )

I have tried to persuade two fettlers to do this and they were both so discouraging it never happened. It should be so easy, though...
Logged
Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

RogerT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1575
  • can't walk past a box w'out picking it up...
    • Jolly Roger Accordions
Re: Shoe-horn a C# reed into 20 key Anglo concertina?
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2018, 09:25:09 AM »

Yes I agree, so I'm going to give it a go. Since I posted Chris Ghent on Conc.net has given a good analysis and suggests using a right hand top G button and mod the chamber to take middle C#/C#, which involves a bit more work but sounds attractive.
Chris' objection to the substitution is the difficulty in making it work properly. He suggests a 30 key, which is obviously the way to go (I have had two in the past). But I like the compactness of the 20key Jones. And I've just had two new ends made for it (:).
Anahata ... on the 20key there is no push A ...so that would be nice...if it was a push A.

Theo

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11227
  • Hohner Club Too
    • The Box Place
Re: Shoe-horn a C# reed into 20 key Anglo concertina?
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2018, 09:44:17 AM »

Rather than put the C# in the top button, I would put it on button 1 and move all the other reeds one place to the right.  That would put the C# in a position closer to where it would be on a 30 key, and you can probably get away without altering reed chambers, and probably only minor changes to some reed slots.
Logged
Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

Proprietor of The Box Place for melodeon and concertina sales and service.
Follow me on Twitter and Facebook for stock updates.

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2097
  • DG Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, old CF Hohner
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Shoe-horn a C# reed into 20 key Anglo concertina?
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2018, 09:46:41 AM »

Yes I agree, so I'm going to give it a go. Since I posted Chris Ghent on Conc.net has given a good analysis and suggests using a right hand top G button and mod the chamber to take middle C#/C#, which involves a bit more work but sounds attractive.
Chris' objection to the substitution is the difficulty in making it work properly. He suggests a 30 key, which is obviously the way to go (I have had two in the past). But I like the compactness of the 20key Jones. And I've just had two new ends made for it (:).
Anahata ... on the 20key there is no push A ...so that would be nice...if it was a push A.

Funnily enough, mine is a 20 key Jones. I think my fettlers were reluctant to go playing carpenter with a functioning 150 year old instrument. Interested in knowing how this works out.
Logged
Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

RogerT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1575
  • can't walk past a box w'out picking it up...
    • Jolly Roger Accordions
Re: Shoe-horn a C# reed into 20 key Anglo concertina?
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2018, 11:35:06 AM »

Rather than put the C# in the top button, I would put it on button 1 and move all the other reeds one place to the right.  That would put the C# in a position closer to where it would be on a 30 key, and you can probably get away without altering reed chambers, and probably only minor changes to some reed slots.
Now then! This is what is needed. A bit of creative thinking. Thanks Theo. I'll take a closer look to see how viable this is..

RogerT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1575
  • can't walk past a box w'out picking it up...
    • Jolly Roger Accordions
Re: Shoe-horn a C# reed into 20 key Anglo concertina?
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2018, 05:59:04 PM »

Update: On my 20 key Jones I substituted the pull A on the LH G row for C#. The reed pretty much went straight in. This seems to be an acceptable way to gain that all important C#. I play across the rows (as in the Bramich book), so G scale/tunes is mostly on the C row until I get to the top E or F#. The position of this C# feels very natural too. And I have pull A on the LH C row top button...so the G row GA button is actually duplicated on the C row.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 06:00:59 PM by RogerT »
Logged

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2097
  • DG Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, old CF Hohner
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Shoe-horn a C# reed into 20 key Anglo concertina?
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2018, 06:02:23 PM »

Update: On my 20 key Jones I substituted the pull A on the LH G row for C#. The reed pretty much went straight in. This seems to be an acceptable way to gain that all important C#. I play across the rows (as in the Bramich book), so G scale/tunes is mostly on the C row until I get to the top E or F#. The position of this C# feels very natural too.

Can I have one to match, please? Anyone?
I have asked a couple fettlers for this and they don't want to do it. Seems like common sense to me. They don't want to make it none standard.
Logged
Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

RogerT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1575
  • can't walk past a box w'out picking it up...
    • Jolly Roger Accordions
Re: Shoe-horn a C# reed into 20 key Anglo concertina?
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2018, 06:55:05 PM »

What 20 key have you got?

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2097
  • DG Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, old CF Hohner
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Shoe-horn a C# reed into 20 key Anglo concertina?
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2018, 07:02:16 PM »

What 20 key have you got?
A Jones Sally Army special from mid to late 19th C (I think about 1870s, but I can't remember).
I did have the serial number, but I can't find it. Have to dig it out
Logged
Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

RogerT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1575
  • can't walk past a box w'out picking it up...
    • Jolly Roger Accordions
Re: Shoe-horn a C# reed into 20 key Anglo concertina?
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2018, 08:15:48 PM »

Um...perhaps PM me?
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.