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Author Topic: How do you like to produce/consume your dose of melnet?  (Read 1413 times)

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Eshed

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How do you like to produce/consume your dose of melnet?
« on: July 26, 2018, 11:34:33 AM »

Got prompted by the beginning of the discussion here: http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,22529.msg270836.html#msg270836

I'll formulate the questions:
1) How do you record? (video? audio? miming?) Why?
2) How do you prefer to consume content from melnet or other homemade recordings? (video? audio? miming?) Why?
3) What makes you stop listening halfway through?

Personally I think there are two reasons why I prefer to record video and not just audio. Firstly, while it is easier to get a "good enough" result when only recording audio, that just means it's a skill I have to improve on - it's something I should be able to do consistently ok before trying to perform in front of a crowd. Secondly, while melnet wouldn't care about that, if I show a video to friends/family, having video makes it much more personal as it is clear I'm the person playing.

As to consuming, I prefer video as well. Even though it may be of slightly lower playing quality, it's a little bit like a live concert, it feels more alive. I'd even go as far as to claim that a melodeon face video is nicer to watch than a floating box and two hands one.

I think that for me there are two exit points: The first is in the first few seconds, if I figured that I dislike the playing style. The second is after the tune is done the first time through, usually when it's decent playing, but hasn't piqued my interest enough to continue. Looking at youtube analytics it seemed other people usually follow these two exit points in my videos (although some survive to the end  :||:).
« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 03:48:04 PM by Eshed »
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: How do you like to produce/consume your dose of melnet?
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2018, 11:56:15 AM »

Got prompted by the beginning of the  discussion here: http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,22529.msg270836.html#msg270836

I'll formulate the questions:
1) How do you record? Why?
2) How do you prefer to consume content from melnet or other homemade recordings? (video? audio? miming?) Why?
3) What makes you stop listening halfway through?


Nice one. Do you mind if  I add two related questions?

4)  Why do you record?
5)  Why do you post?
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Eshed

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Re: How do you like to produce/consume your dose of melnet?
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2018, 12:35:05 PM »

Nice one. Do you mind if  I add two related questions?

4)  Why do you record?
5)  Why do you post?
I'm afraid you can only add questions if you answer them yourself  ;)
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Fred

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Re: How do you like to produce/consume your dose of melnet?
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2018, 01:29:53 PM »

1) How do you record? Why?
2) How do you prefer to consume content from melnet or other homemade recordings? (video? audio? miming?) Why?
3) What makes you stop listening halfway through?
4)  Why do you record?
5)  Why do you post?

1) Via a small mixer, a 2/3" membrane microphone (AKG P120) and playing my box while sitting roughly 50 cm away from the microphone (never measured that though). Started http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,21842.0.html earlier this year, for anyone interested. I don't have a webcam and don't want to get into video editing at all - too time consuming, even though I understand it is helpful for others to see how I'm playing and where my fingers sit while playing. Yet, my box has a very unusual button layout therefore it wouldn't help others all to much, I suppose.
2) Video or audio does not really matter to me, so I'm indifferent about that. Normally I only listen to the audio while I browse recent melnet discussions or other websites. Only if the tune or the playstyle strikes me as something out of the ordinary, I switch over to watch the video actively (if there is a video of the recording).
3) I try to listen through every recording as far as possible because it broadens my musical horizon and understanding of how others play the instrument. When the repetition of a tune sets in and it's perfectly the same, I sometimes quit early.
4) I record because I want to test myself if I can play through a tune without all too many hickups and because I want to participate in the social undertaking that is TotM on this forum. Simple as that.
5) To hopefully give others the pleasure of listening to my recordings - I always try to slightly (or majorly) modify the songs and give them a special touch. I simply hope that people find my recordings enjoyable or inspirational and that they can take something out of them - be it a new tune or slight twist on one they already know.

Looking forward to more answers on this topic.  (:)
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: How do you like to produce/consume your dose of melnet?
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2018, 03:31:48 PM »

Go on then  ;D

1) How do you record? Why?
         - Audio and video-I have recorded sound on an old Zoom H1 [correction, it's an H2 (not an H2N)], since I first started posting. Seems to work OK. I used to record video on an old Phillips digital snap camera, circa 2005 vintage, because it was all I had, then edit the Zoom sound on to it. That camera died so, I started posting audio only on SoundCloud. I found that a much more natural experience, so I stuck with it for a bit. I got a Lenovo tablet fairly recently that I have tried with varying degrees of success. Much better outdoors than in, though. I have been known to put together photo sequences. Can be fun.
     - Miming, funnily enough, I posted something like that this month.  The tablet went flat while I was recording. Rather than bin a half decent take, I re-recorded a video, playing along to the original sound track. Given that I have a very small window of opportunity for learning tunes, practicing and  making recordings of myself (at best an hour or so first thing in the morning), this seemed better than posting nothing, which was the likely alternative.   

2) How do you prefer to consume content from melnet or other homemade recordings? (video? audio? miming?) Why?
     -Don't really care. Videos are good, especially if the playing is particularly interesting/skillful and I have used them on occasion as a learning tool, especially Anahata's but I mostly use my ears.
     -I am perfectly happy to just listen on SoundCloud, though. I don't imagine anyone wants to post something that isn't their best effort at the time. Certainly, I don't. If an audio only post makes that possible, I don't see any reason for not doing that.
     
3) What makes you stop listening halfway through?
     -Usually I do listen through. Someone's gone to the trouble of making a recording. I'm happy to go to the trouble of listening. If I don't, there's a good chance that I have decided to capture the sound track as an MP3 (using something like Ummy Video). I tend to do this with versions of the tune that have something about them I think I want to keep in mind when I'm learning a tune. I hope that doesn't offend anyone. It's the way I've always approached tunes. Collect sound references, listen to them a lot and see what happens.

4)  Why do you record?
    -To try and  improve my playing. It can be mortifying to realise the difference between what you think you sound like and what you actually sound like but, recording and critically assessing your recording has to be the best to way to get better.
     -To have a record  of my playing.
     -Because I enjoy the process of going from stumbling through a tune to developing a reasonable fluency and the satisfaction of having a record of something new that I've had a part in creating.

5)  Why do you post?
     -Erm, because Anahata suggested I should  when I commented without posting myself  (:). I used to just learn tunes, without posting.
     -Because it motivates me to work on tunes I often find very tricky,  to the point where I can play them out in public. I don't post until I feel I could do that.
     -To get informed feedback. Those who make up my normal audiences just seem to take it for granted that I can play stuff. People on here have an idea of how you get to that point.
     
     -
     
« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 09:29:13 PM by Tone Dumb Greg »
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The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
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Gena Crisman

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Re: How do you like to produce/consume your dose of melnet?
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2018, 09:18:01 PM »

1) How do you record? Why?
2) How do you prefer to consume content from melnet or other homemade recordings? (video? audio? miming?) Why?
3) What makes you stop listening halfway through?
4)  Why do you record?
5)  Why do you post?

1) I record with my smartphone as the camera, usually with exposure and focus locked, although that did ruin a recent recording - this stops autofocus from making the whole picture blurry every so often for no reason, and stops the whole image from brightening or darkening and losing the detail in the place I'd cared about. I also replace the audio with that from a simultaneously recording from an h2n audio recorder, because it just plain sounds better, has a better noise floor, and I can place it somewhere other than the best place to record audio from, not the best place to record video from. I'm comfortable messing around and cutting up my videos, and I use avisynth to do this because it was my bread and butter for a while.

2) Videos of actual playing are pretty much always the best. Ideally showing fairly clearly what it is that you're doing, too, but, sometimes this is not possible. See point 5. For one, it more closely ties the sound of what I'm hearing with the instrument that you're playing and how you're choosing to play it. Our instruments are a sort that will differ on set up & sound fairly significantly, and it's nice to see this as part of the playing of the tune. It keeps the human element feeling strong, too, and it helps me believe that there's no real reason why I can't do what they're doing, if I apply myself to that goal.

3) I don't particularly know if there's any single reason why I might not listen the whole way through. Mostly, if it doesn't appeal to me because of their instrument, or their sound quality is very poor, or if I didn't particularly care for the tune in question. Like if I've listened to 5 other tune of the months that are ostensibly the same, I'm more likely to give it it a gloss over. Selfish reasons, pretty much.

4) I record to, I guess, validate to myself that I can do it, and to try and see my playing through other people's eyes (both by watching my own video and any comments I may receive). Maybe a little to compare myself, but also to believe in myself and find things to improve on. In some cases though, it's to share something cool with others. I'm sad that I lost the video for Day Trip to Bangor, because it's quite a difficult but fun tune to play and I'd like for people who want to learn to play it to be able to just see me play it, and see the vague contortions one must go to, which are, in turn, what makes it fun for me. If you just listen to it, you could be tricked into thinking it was just straight up and down a row. I'm on a bit of a kick at the moment for playing tunes that are on the edge of possible, and I might've skipped over it had I not realised.

5) I post mostly to help people who are like me but aren't me: I want to create the posts that I would have wanted to read before I had to post them, generally because I couldn't find the information. I read mostly to learn and improve, because I want to be the best at this strange instrument that I possibly can be, and learning from other people seems to be working pretty well so far.
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playandteach

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Re: How do you like to produce/consume your dose of melnet?
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2018, 12:28:19 AM »

Well Gena's a better person than I am.
1 I record direct to camcorder because I'm not recording for posterity: I am at best a flawed player, who is on maybe their 4th best instrument, and a bit knackered. If these forums had been around in the early 90s I might well have contributed something a little more considered for clarinets but then again I was too busy doing it live. I just want a recording that is fuss free and easy to get up on youtube with my low spec computer.
2 Video only unless there's a very good reason why not. I just want to see it being done for real, and how.
3 Wet tuning will have me turning off in a nanosecond. Just a personal thing but for me it's like have screamo at full pelt. I will listen to less experienced players all the way through, and big pat on the back. Or top versions all the way through. Everything else gets partial listening. Another quick switch off is additional reverb.
4 There were, when I first joined, some people full of negativity who never posted recordings themselves. I had very little respect for these folk, and therefore had no option but to put myself out there too. I do post my own tunes for fun, as no-one else is going to do it for me. But other than that it is purely taking my medicine.
5 See point 4. I only record in order to post.

Bottom line is, great forum, I need to be inside the tent though.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2018, 09:12:20 PM by playandteach »
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Anahata

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Re: How do you like to produce/consume your dose of melnet?
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2018, 01:55:14 PM »

Quote
1) How do you record? Why?
Video: Canon Legria HF R56 which records onto SD card.
Audio: pair of small diaphragm condensers (Schoeps MK41, Neumann KM184, AKG "Blue Line" C391B or Behringer C-2) in XY stereo (usually) into Ardour on AV Linux.
Combining audio and video: KDEnlive.
- Camera because it seemed best bang for buck in my price range for what I needed.
- mics because I have a recording studio for hobby and occasional semi-pro use.
- Ardour because it's free and good and again because of recording studio.
- AV Linux because it was the first Linux distribution I found in which audio stuff "just worked"

Quote
2) How do you prefer to consume content from melnet or other homemade recordings? (video? audio? miming?) Why?
YouTube, because I like to see and because I'm used to using it. And I post to YouTube because I believe it has the biggest potential audience, otherwise I'd use Vimeo.

Quote
3) What makes you stop listening halfway through?
Because I get bored. But that's a very capricious and variable thing, because there could be all sorts of spurious reasons why I'm interested, or why I want to go away and watch something else.

Quote
4)  Why do you record?
Mostly because of Melnet ToTM to begin with. Also for the practice of making/editing recordings and videos. And for the challenge of learning new tunes I'd l'd never otherwise have looked at.
Later, because I like the feedback, especially meeting random people who have seen my videos.

Quote
5)  Why do you post?
See most of  (4).
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RogerT

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Re: How do you like to produce/consume your dose of melnet?
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2018, 08:22:52 AM »

Why do I record?  These days to make demo videos of sale boxes or interesting instruments.
How? Often with smartphone...but that is because it uploads to (as it happens Google) automatically and I don’t have to do much to get it onto YouTube. Otherwise with a LUMIX G3 which has good stereo mics.
Why do you stop halfway through?  Actually I sometimes get a few seconds in and go 'oh no' and stop, because it is awful. Or I’ll listen to a bit of it if it’s a repetitive ABAB tune and the player does nothing to make it interesting, or the audio is terrible or if the lighting is so terrible. I don’t really like vids where you can’t see the player, though I have posted a few myself. Also I used to do some explanatory chat if I am demoing something, but I can go on too long and come across as patronising so I try to keep that to a minimum for my vids...and too much chat by somebody explaining the bleedin' obvious is a real turn off...and there are a few melnet vids like that. Otherwise I’ll listen right through.
See the vids by Liberty Bellows for a lesson in how to get it just right.

Clive Williams

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Re: How do you like to produce/consume your dose of melnet?
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2018, 09:33:55 AM »

1) Zoom H2 + webcam for video. Mix with Mixcraft; add video track with Windows live video editing thing (ugh). Those who watch my stuff know that I do tend to use quite a bit of reverb. It occurs to me there are two categories of listener; those who go to lots of sessions and Morris events who hear melodeon players live, and those that listen to CD / Spotify recordings. Because of family commitments I'm very much a recording listener.
 I think this has tuned my ear to expect more reverb than those who hear lots of live playing. Nothing wrong with either, but for to my ear a dry recording is... too dry.

2) YouTube mostly (sorry SoundCloud users)

3) depends - no fixed rules really.

4) much like everyone else, as a challenge - can I learn 2 (usually) new pieces and get them up to performance standard in a month? I find it really quite hard sometimes. Means I don't stagnate playing the same old stuff, which I probably would otherwise. And gives me a massive library of material to draw on for various projects.

5) As above. I know not a lot of people watch, but the act of recording and posting provides an endpoint to the month's learning. If anyone else picks up a tune or a technique from something I've posted, that's nice too.

Jesse Smith

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Re: How do you like to produce/consume your dose of melnet?
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2018, 08:26:43 PM »

1) I use my cell phone camera to record video and a Zoom H2N to record the audio. (That's new - until June I was just using the phone to get audio as well. I use KDEnlive to match the two tracks, trim the ends, and add titles. I used to do that in Windows but then KDEnlive just suddenly stopped working in Windows so last time I used AV Linux after reading an old post where Anahata mentioned it. That worked great, even when just booting from a DVD!

2) I like video best because if there's a clever bit I like to see how it is played if possible. Just to get a basic idea of how various sounds might be produced.

3) I guess I might quit watching early if the style of the tune doesn't really interest me although I usually make it through the first pass. If the tune is repeated two or three or more times with no variations on later repeats then there's not much point in watching the later repeats. So I guess those are the two things that would cut a video short for me.

4) Why record at all? Mainly because the TotM offers a focus and a deadline for practicing. I think my level of proficiency leapt forward when I spent all month working on Tripping Upstairs.

5) I post the videos to participate in the TotM threads (people have to post if the threads are going to continue). Also to have a record of how much my playing has developed over time. And finally for friends and family to watch as they may be interested in what I'm up to.
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Re: How do you like to produce/consume your dose of melnet?
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2018, 10:25:03 AM »

Sorry I'm a bit late catching up with this but I think it's s a really interesting thread.
My take:
1) I play live and record simultaneously on a digital camera - Panasonic Lumix DMC-TZ30 and recorder - an old Olympus LS-10. I use Audacity to do a bit of basic sound processing and Windows Live Music to edit the vid and mix vid and sound.
2) I watch a fair few YT postings but hardly ever check out anything on Soundcloud - sorry Soundclouders.
3) I'm quite capricious in how much of a vid I'll watch. I'll persevere with someone who's learning and struggling but give up on overelaborate versions of tunes using showy harmonies and techniques that detract from the natural swing of a piece.
4) I started recording to take part in T(+Th)OTM and discovered as a result that it's a good way of playing 'properly' rather than say 70% of the way there. It makes you think about and work on LH harmonies and techniques  I've also learnt tunes that I'd never have tried otherwise. I've even come to like some of them!
5) I post partly to take part in the TOTM theme. Also, for a very long time I've performed live in various ways. I suspect there's an element of 'showing off' for me who am a naturally shy person. I've had some really gratifying feedback on YT and feel mildly proud of the catalogue of stuff I've built up over the last few years. In a less selfish way I also hope that some of my recordings have helped newer developing players.
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