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Author Topic: Limiting button travel  (Read 3358 times)

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Pete Dunk

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Limiting button travel
« on: September 19, 2018, 03:37:41 PM »


I need to limit the button travel of a box I am working on. I have made two wooden blocks to glue down at either end of the action and I intend to screw a wooden rail which goes over all of the levers onto those blocks. This way the rail can be easily removed allowing free access to the pallets for refacing in the future.


I'd like to add something underneath the rail that will soften the contact with the lever arms. It needs to be soft enough to cushion the blow, thin enough to fit and durable enough to withstand a few years of impact from square edged steel levers. Any ideas?
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: Limiting button travel
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2018, 03:50:20 PM »

I use leather, usually a couple of layers.

SJ
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Theo

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Re: Limiting button travel
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2018, 04:15:31 PM »

With a Hohner a much more solid method is to put a strip of soft wood under the base of the levers.   I've posted a collection of photos here  They need to be put into a logical order, but they do show the process.  I use western red cedar which is soft enough not to need padding, but you can add a thin layer of leather for a softer feel.  Once fitted the wooden strip does not need to be removed for access to the mechanism.

I learned this method from the late Richard Morse, founder of The Button Box.

The disadvantage of your method is that the wooden "beam" will flex so that the buttons in the centre of the keyboard will have a slight longer travel than those at the ends. 

« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 04:18:39 PM by Theo »
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Chris Rayner

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Re: Limiting button travel
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2018, 04:46:51 PM »

Is that screw just too long, or does it have some adjustable function?
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Theo

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Re: Limiting button travel
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2018, 05:34:35 PM »

It’s just waiting to be driven home.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Limiting button travel
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2018, 05:54:55 PM »

...I use western red cedar which is soft enough not to need padding, but you can add a thin layer of leather for a softer feel. 

Here's a photo of the travel limiter which I installed. It follows Theo's/Richard Morse's method, but I have added a length of black leather to the top surface of the wooden strip. I find it reduces the noise of the levers.
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Limiting button travel
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2018, 07:52:53 PM »

That looks like the type of leather I would use for the top and bottom runs of concertina bellows folds Steve, is that about right?
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Re: Limiting button travel
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2018, 08:01:47 PM »

That looks like the type of leather I would use for the top and bottom runs of concertina bellows folds Steve, is that about right?

It's a little bit thicker than that - I would estimate about 0.5 mm thick. It was just a scrap end I found in a box of bits and pieces in a local charity shop.
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: Limiting button travel
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2018, 08:26:08 PM »

...I use western red cedar which is soft enough not to need padding, but you can add a thin layer of leather for a softer feel. 

Here's a photo of the travel limiter which I installed. It follows Theo's/Richard Morse's method, but I have added a length of black leather to the top surface of the wooden strip. I find it reduces the noise of the levers.

Yup that's what I do too

SJ
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Cam Button

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Re: Limiting button travel
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2018, 09:18:26 PM »

Thank you again for sharing your knowledge.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Limiting button travel
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2018, 10:25:43 AM »

I took off the plastic buttons case off mine, and put it back with 2 layers of cardboard inside, behind the levers. That's an easy fix for the upracticed non professional but Theo's method looks just perfect. (:) It might cause slight rattle?

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Theo

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Re: Limiting button travel
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2018, 11:21:49 AM »

I took off the plastic buttons case off mine, and put it back with 2 layers of cardboard inside, behind the levers. That's an easy fix for the upracticed non professional but Theo's method looks just perfect. (:) It might cause slight rattle?

The wood I use is quite springy, and I get no noise during play.   
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Pete Dunk

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Re: Limiting button travel
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2018, 08:21:28 PM »

Do you have a suitable bit of Western Red Cedar for sale Theo? If you say yes I'll contact you 'at work' so to speak.
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Theo

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Re: Limiting button travel
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2018, 08:39:22 PM »

Some knot free fast grow spruce eg (UK grown) would also work I think as would a firm grade of balsa. 
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Pete Dunk

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Re: Limiting button travel
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2018, 09:08:58 PM »

Some knot free fast grow spruce eg (UK grown) would also work I think as would a firm grade of balsa.

I did wonder about balsa as it's remarkably reslient for such a soft timber and a bit of leather on top might just work. I have a contact at a company who build houses using quite a lot of cedar but that's probably european cedar not western red, I'm not sure how much difference that would make. The box I am working on is old but it has a modern plastic keyboard fitted and I'm quite concerned about tampering with it as it doesn't look to be the best fit in the world . . .  ::)
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Johnnie Johnston

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Re: Limiting button travel
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2018, 12:10:09 PM »

Not say this is a great way of limiting button travel but it worked for me. .I wished I would have taken photos but camera not working sorry..
====

I decided to play with 'stopping buttons bottoming out and going too deep in the hole '. I did not want to use a piece of wood as I have read others have done on melnet. So I did the following

I used 1/2 x 1/2 Sponge rubber weather stripping closed cell with self adhesive on one side.. I them to size to fit in the slots under the holes.  I shoved them in far as possible then installed the pallet button assembly.. No more bottoming out.. and the stroke goes just below the hole, Just below level.. What a difference that makes..
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Limiting button travel
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2018, 01:57:22 PM »

I followed Theo's method in the end using a piece of lightweight hardwood topped off with recycled leather valves from bass reeds. Works well and feels nice.  (:)
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Re: Limiting button travel
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2018, 04:32:51 PM »

I used two lengths of 6mm ramin dowel on my Pokerwork, with eleven narrow rebates cut into the upper surface of the one nearest the soundboard (that one limits the inside row) to allow clearance for the outer row levers to engage with the outer length of dowel, which was made slightly lower than 6mm, by sanding.  The result is consistent key travel along and across the rows.  The lengths of dowel are a push fit into the space below the key mechanism and no gluing was necessary.  Ramin's not a soft wood, but the arrangement's worked comfortably and well, without requiring any attention, for twelve years of almost weekly thrashing at ceilidhs. 

I might add that I gave the springs a very good tweaking at the same time, so that the touch is as light as possible.  The end result was a box that is as fast and responsive (though perhaps with more keyboard clatter) as those in my small collection that cost a great deal more.
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Limiting button travel
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2018, 10:18:07 PM »

Well you're just showing off!  ;)
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Neil_M

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Re: Limiting button travel
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2018, 01:30:15 PM »

This post is good timing for me, I've just bought a Pressed Wood in G/C (Thanks Trevor) after being without a melodeon for a couple of years.

So far I've re-faced the bass pallets (what an amazing difference!) and taped the thirds. Next jobs include replacing curly valves, re-facing treble pallets and limiting button travel.

If I can find the right bit of tree I'm going to try Theo's method for limiting button travel. Reading above, it seems like adding leather to the top of the strip is a popular option. I don't have any scraps of leather lying about but it has just crossed my mind that I can re-use some of the old leather valves. Although probably not recommended I'm sure this will do the job and it's just within my price bracket  ;)

Also wanted to say a big thank you to all those who give advice on here, what a fantastic resource.
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