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Author Topic: 1 row in G, which keys?  (Read 6168 times)

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Winston Smith

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1 row in G, which keys?
« on: October 21, 2018, 02:03:19 PM »

Here you are, a straightforward question; In which keys can one play naturally and easily on a 1 row melodeon in the key of G, please?
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Fred

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Re: 1 row in G, which keys?
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2018, 02:05:42 PM »

G Major and E Minor would come to mind.
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Dick Rees

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Re: 1 row in G, which keys?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2018, 02:12:41 PM »

Here you are, a straightforward question; In which keys can one play naturally and easily on a 1 row melodeon in the key of G, please?

Theoretically, you can play in some mode of a key based on any note of the G scale:

G, am, bm, C, D, or em.  F#?  Not so much.  If I put them in any order I'd say G, am, em, D mixolydian and C.  It depends on the tune.   

Take a peek here:  https://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Music_Theory/Modes
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 02:22:08 PM by Dick Rees »
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: 1 row in G, which keys?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2018, 02:25:15 PM »

Here you are, a straightforward question; In which keys can one play naturally and easily on a 1 row melodeon in the key of G, please?

Theoretically, you can play in some mode of a key based on any note of the G scale:

G, am, bm, C, D, or em.  F#?  Not so much.

It depends on the tune.

Or, from a modal perspective, G Ionian, A Dorian, B Phrygian, C Lydian, D Mixolydian, E Aeolian and F# Locrian.

Other possibilities exist, but are generally a bit more complex because they rely on unavailable notes being left out.
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mselic

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Re: 1 row in G, which keys?
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2018, 02:32:59 PM »

I would agree with Dick and the order that he listed the keys.
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Dick Rees

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Re: 1 row in G, which keys?
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2018, 03:49:10 PM »

My favorite tunes for the last year or so have been played in D "mixed-up-Lydian" on my G/C box.  Lots of good Swedish fiddle music.
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george garside

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Re: 1 row in G, which keys?
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2018, 04:00:30 PM »

g obviously easy, D  with a maybe bit of faking  and many pipe tunes in D with no faking!


george
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Winston Smith

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Re: 1 row in G, which keys?
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2018, 04:05:09 PM »

Thanks all, I'll just go back under my stone for a while!
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Dick Rees

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Re: 1 row in G, which keys?
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2018, 04:25:56 PM »

Thanks all, I'll just go back under my stone for a while!

No need to get stoned.  It's a legitimate question with extremely interesting implications.  I, for one, first played the tunes, then figured out all the theory and stuff as a way to codify and communicate my experience for and to others.

One of my tag lines is:

Theory is the post-mortem of Music.
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: 1 row in G, which keys?
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2018, 04:31:29 PM »

Here you are, a straightforward question; In which keys can one play naturally and easily on a 1 row melodeon in the key of G, please?
A straight forward answer.
Naturally and easily: G major and A minor (Dorian mode, i.e. A B C D E F# G A)
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rileycat

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Re: 1 row in G, which keys?
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2018, 05:14:23 PM »

Steve_Freereeder is spot on.  I also play a few odds'n ends in other keys.  If you're familiar with Joe Egan's Polka, try starting on the pull note of the next button above your pushed G - it'll be a C - and you can play the whole tune from there
in the key of C. It's a bit of a re-learn to change that ingrained push/pull sequence you use for tunes in G, but I bet you'll get there quite easily.  The basses won't work, of course, but don't worry - if you then shift to a polka in G you can pull in the basses and it's a good 'dramatic' key change!

Also try La Russe in G for the A phrase (as usual) then start the B phrase on the G button pulled - this'll set you off in the key of D as it is usually played.  Again a bit of re-learning of the push/pull sequence, but it gives you a way into the key of D.  Hope that helps
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 06:51:00 PM by rileycat »
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Dick Rees

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Re: 1 row in G, which keys?
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2018, 06:16:31 PM »

Naturally and easily still depend on the tune itself...or so it seems to me.  Some work, some don't.  If the tune is in Mixolydian mode, the "natural and easy" key on a G box is D.  Pipe tunes were mentioned and they would more likely be in D.
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Re: 1 row in G, which keys?
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2018, 09:26:30 PM »

Thanks all, I'll just go back under my stone for a while!
One of my tag lines is:

Theory is the post-mortem of Music.
Post-mortem's require death. I think that theory is just one way (a good way for a lot of people) to make progress, especially in writing tunes. Nothing has to die. I think it keeps the magic but takes away the mystery.
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Winston Smith

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Re: 1 row in G, which keys?
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2018, 09:31:09 PM »

OK. Thank you George and Steve, who's answers have me peeping back out from under the stone!

Sooooooooooo! On the lovely 1 row things that have the name Sagne on, what advantages do the extra buttons give? Obviously, it will depend on what the owners have stipulated, I realise that much, but what sort of options would there be for a 1 row with 14 buttons? If the extra buttons were all accidentals, would that allow relatively simple playing in more keys, or is there another (possibly) more pressing alternative use for them?

And thanks also to Pete P&T. I see the magic, but it's presently obscured by the mystery! Perhaps I'll get there some day?
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howard mitchell

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Re: 1 row in G, which keys?
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2018, 11:09:06 PM »


Sooooooooooo! On the lovely 1 row things that have the name Sagne on, what advantages do the extra buttons give? Obviously, it will depend on what the owners have stipulated, I realise that much, but what sort of options would there be for a 1 row with 14 buttons? If the extra buttons were all accidentals, would that allow relatively simple playing in more keys, or is there another (possibly) more pressing alternative use for them?


The standard layout on a Sagne 1 and a half row has all the accidentals to give two completely chromatic octaves. For me this means I can relatively easily go to the adjacent keys (A and G) and have access to accidentals. In theory you could play in any key. I did debate having some reversals instead but went for the standard layout.



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Re: 1 row in G, which keys?
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2018, 11:18:05 PM »

Thanks ever so, Mitch. I've been insanely jealous of yours since I first saw it! I'd hoped that you might answer my question, thanks for doing so. It's as I had hoped. Theoretically, could this system be tuned to play in B/C, or another half step set-up, but cutting out the extra weight of the rest of the second row?
My mind just wanders about regarding these various possibilities, you know.
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Gena Crisman

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Re: 1 row in G, which keys?
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2018, 12:48:51 AM »

Theoretically, could this system be tuned to play in B/C, or another half step set-up, but cutting out the extra weight of the rest of the second row?

Uhm, can you elaborate on your thinking here at all?

You'll probably find that you're better off with cramming the accidentals all onto the half row than using a partial semitone system, simply because the semitone system will have some reversals that just cut down your chromatic window, and realistically to play in eg Bb you're probably going to need an octave from one Bb to another Bb plus change, not, just half above and half below at most.

Since this caught my eye and I wanted to know more, Mitch posted quite a bit about the layout of his Sag'né instrument in this thread: http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,21054.0.html

Compare that to the notes you might get if you eg had a C instrument and put a partial C# row on the half row, eg from https://forum.melodeon.net/files/site/CC21hohnerbass.gif

A bit of a mind bender layout granted, but, as you say, possibilities!
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Re: 1 row in G, which keys?
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2018, 07:52:24 AM »

"Uhm, can you elaborate on your thinking here at all?"

Not really! I stumble about in the dark, with mechanical ideas to get a bit more out of my collection of scrap boxes. As we all need just one more box, so we also might need just one more note on any particular box we have. Someone mentioned this phenomenon on here recently, and it certainly struck a chord (no pun intended) with me.

As an example of my dilemmas, I've currently got 5 bass notes on my HA114G, and I'm fishing about for which other one to bang in (eventually I'll have 8 notes) but the configuration is also a problem. i.e. which notes to pair up on each button, and which position button to use for each pair for ease of playing?

The above minor problems couple with my more major problems, and are mainly caused, I think, by my lack of musical knowledge. What I'm hoping for here is inspiration and guidance to carry on trying to work out the application of my Frankenstein ideas.

Sorry if I seem cagey, it's just that I have no definite thoughts yet, just disjointed wonderings and wanderings! I find it difficult enough trying to phrase the right questions, never mind come to any conclusions, as yet.
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: 1 row in G, which keys?
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2018, 11:24:14 AM »

Just a gentle word of caution perhaps...

I'm all in favour of experimentation, improvements, trying out different tunings, keyboard layouts and such.
However, let's not forget that the basic 10-button one-row four-stop melodeon is an absolutely glorious instrument  (:). Whatever key it is pitched in, it can make a wonderful full and rich sound, reminiscent of fairgrounds, wurlitzer organs, etc., Just the ticket to get people's feet tapping and dancing.

Yes, it has its limitations inherent in its simplicity and economy of layout and tuning, but I believe that once we accept those limitations and learn to work with them rather than fighting them and wishing they weren't there, the humble one-row instrument truly comes to life. Just listen to all those Cajun and Quebecois musicians, and closer to home here, players such as John Kirkpatrick, Katie Howson, Jeannie Harris. Or recordings of Oscar Woods.

Don't get me wrong; I love and play all those dreamy minor key tunes on my 2.5 row box, smooth cross-rowing stuff and all. But sometimes I just put it to one side, pick up my one-row four-stop and... it's a breath of fresh air (perhaps with a slight tang of steam locomotives, coal and hot oil).
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Re: 1 row in G, which keys?
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2018, 11:57:19 AM »

Don't get me wrong; I love and play all those dreamy minor key tunes on my 2.5 row box, smooth cross-rowing stuff and all. But sometimes I just put it to one side, pick up my one-row four-stop and... it's a breath of fresh air (perhaps with a slight tang of steam locomotives, coal and hot oil).
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This is how people get infected with MAD
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