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Author Topic: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project  (Read 29647 times)

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ChrisP

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2018, 08:07:59 PM »

OK, I've sent 11 batches out so far, one or two by Melnet PM. If you are expecting one and haven't received, let me know. That would take us about half way. Obviously don't rush, we all have other lives to lead. If transcribing from the previous transcriptions, leave out the chords and check for accuracy against the originals.
I think Greg was right, btw, so I'll add to my Hint page an example of what a tune should ideally look like when I receive it, and before I mount it in the wild.

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2018, 08:30:54 PM »

I must be very sad. I am entertaining myself this Christmas by having a bash at coding my first tune from the Buttrey MS  ;D

It raises a few questions in my mind. I hope it's OK to ask them here.

The title of tune 375, as given in the list following the image of the page, is "O What My Bomey Graney Was  A Quick Step 6/8 D  Carroll – K. Purvis".

1. This title appears to be a corruption of "O What A Beau My Granny Was".  A  tune with this and similar, titles is found in a number of 18th and 19th C tune manuscripts, not to mention modern sessions. It is, however a completely unrelated tune. Is my Z: comment appropriate and sufficient?
2. I assume that the reference to Carroll-K. Purvis is an alternative title (Carroll) from another source (K. Purvis). Is this noted correctly in the second title? I suspect not.
3. In the manuscript, in the third bar of the A Part, the last note was originally written as a G. This is crossed out and replaced with a B. I have noted this in a Z: comment as NB1. Is this appropriate and done correctly?

X:375
T:O What My Bomey Graney Was. JBut.375
T:Carroll, aka, (K.Purvis). Jbut.375
Z:The title appears to be  a corruption of “What A Beau My Granny Was”
Z:This, and close variations, is the title of a  tune in  4/4 found in a number
Z:of 18thC/19thC tune books. This is a very different tune to that one.
Z:NB1. In the manuscript, in the third bar of the A Part, the last note was originally written as a G. This was crossed out and replaced with a B.
M:6/8
L:1/8
Q:3/8=100
K:D
R:Quick Step
gfd e2c|d2B A2G|FAd F2"NB1"B|E3E3|
gfd e2c|d2B A2G|FDE c3|dD2 D3:|
|:GFA D2F|G2B E2G|FAd f2e|E3E3|
GFA d2f| g2e d2c|d2B A2G|FD2 D3:|

[Edit: I noticed that quotation marks around NB1 seem to have altered and don't work if I copy and paste back into my ABC editor. The originals work fine. Not sure what's happening there]
[Another edit: I don't know if Quick Step is a suitable tune type]
[Yet another edit: Or should the title be
T:O What My Bomey Graney Was. A Quick Step. JBut.375 ?]
« Last Edit: December 25, 2018, 11:02:23 PM by Tone Dumb Greg »
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ChrisP

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2018, 10:42:47 PM »

Have a good look at this file and then come back after the headers are a bit sorted (tomorrow!)  :|glug http://www.cpartington.plus.com/Links/A%20Number%20of%20Supporting%20Items/VMP%20Transcriber%20Hints.html

Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2018, 11:17:59 PM »

Have a good look at this file and then come back after the headers are a bit sorted (tomorrow!)  :|glug http://www.cpartington.plus.com/Links/A%20Number%20of%20Supporting%20Items/VMP%20Transcriber%20Hints.html

OK. I will say, though, that I can't see my query addressed in your guidance (quite) and I can't find an example that covers it. I suspect there is something I don't understand and I'd rather sort it sooner than later.

I was, also, wondering how much editorial licence is allowed. The coding below should be explanatory

T:To the 25th Reg’t A Quick Step Jbut.376
T:The Cheshire Regiment, Aird Vol 6,aka. JBut.376
T:March West Surrey – K. Purvis,aka. JBut.376
Z:Manuscript does not have a repeat mark at the start of the A Part
Z:Repeat mark inserted after pick up note to make repeat scan.
M:2/4
L:1/16
Q:1/4=100
K:G
R:Quick Step
D2|:G2BG A2cA|B2dB G2B2|c2ec B2dB|A2BG (GFE)D|
G2BG A2cA|B2dB c2e2|(edc)B (cBA)G|DGFA G4:|
|:(gfg)e (edc)B|(gfg)e (edc)B|c2ec B2dB|A2BG (GFE)D|
G2BG A2cA|B2dB c2e2|(edc)B (cBA)G|DGFA G4:|
« Last Edit: December 25, 2018, 11:44:54 PM by Tone Dumb Greg »
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2018, 12:26:39 AM »

I've been using the Z: field simply to record (a) The Villgae Music Project, (b) the date (year) and (c) the name of the transcriber, me. See the example in Chris's 'Hints' which he gave earlier.

Also from the 'Hints', as far as I can see, transcriber's notes go in the N: field:
Quote
N: If you know any interesting anecdotes, here's the place for them. Also the place for NB’d comments


Here's one of my transcriptions:

X:46
T:Three Camps. JBut.046, The
T:3 Camps. JBut.046, The %Title as given in MS
Z:Village Music Project 2018 Steve Dumpleton
N:Bars 8 and 16: crotchets in MS changed to dotted crotchets in transcription
N:to correspond with pick-up bars at start of each tune section.
M:2/4
L:1/8
Q:1/4=120
K:G
|:c|B2 A2|G2 g2|f2 e2|d/^c/d/e/ d=c|
B2 A2|G2 g2|f2 !trill!e2|d3:|
|:d|gd {c}BA/G/|!trill!e2 d2|(c/d/e/)d/ cB|!trill!A3 c|
B2 A2|G2 g2|B2 cA|G3:|
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Pete Dunk

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2018, 12:41:02 AM »

Ta for this Steve, my reply was drastically more ascerbic and decidedly nastier. Just saying ... twiddles thumbs.
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2018, 09:25:33 AM »

Sorry, my reply came across as acerbic, it was meant to be amusing; being 10.45 Xmas night the headers referred to my addled head sorted next day, hence the drinking emoji.

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2018, 09:56:59 AM »

Ta for this Steve, my reply was drastically more ascerbic and decidedly nastier. Just saying ... twiddles thumbs.

???   (:)

Probably serves me right for being active on Christmas Day. In my defence, I was enjoying myself and didn't expect anyone else to be on line. Just doing it while it was in my head.


I've been using the Z: field simply to record (a) The Villgae Music Project, (b) the date (year) and (c) the name of the transcriber, me. See the example in Chris's 'Hints' which he gave earlier.

Also from the 'Hints', as far as I can see, transcriber's notes go in the N: field:
Quote
N: If you know any interesting anecdotes, here's the place for them. Also the place for NB’d comments

Here's one of my transcriptions:


Thanks Steve

Sorry if I was being dim, Chris.

I still haven't seen something which sorts out one thing I'm confused on.
Is the the way to ascribe a source for an aka?

T:Carroll,aka, (K.Purvis). Jbut.375
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2018, 11:41:54 AM »

Ah, I see what you mean, having looked at the MS. The image, and that is what we are transcribing, merely says "O What a Beau (or Beauty? I can't make it out and the index doesn't help) my Granny was" - then does it faintly say "A Quickstep"? I see no reference to carrols or K.Purvis, which seems to be a note added by the Canadian transcriber or editor which doesn't concern us. It may be that K. Purvis was the transcriber and knows that it was written by Carroll? Could Google it, and if so then that info would be added as C:Carroll or whatever. Further investigation may or may not help.

ChrisP

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2018, 11:44:15 AM »

Sorry I'm being a bit garbled, still doing Xmas things. Back later.

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2018, 04:37:54 PM »

Oh What a Bomey etc. Haha, the author is unfamiliar with the French and has gone all phonetic!
It appears to be the theatrical song tune we know, but in 6/8 instead of common time. At least as old as late 18thc, very popular for over 50 years
Note the second title added, with ,aka = "also known as"
"Carroll – K. Purvis" is a modern annotation, and K.Purvis is the modern editor. I can't find anything explaining the Carroll bit. If the original author has left an annotation then we add it to the C: field in single apostrophes.  I've therefore added C:'A Quickstep', and since it is now an author-specified rhythm I've also added R:Quickstep. If there is a modern annotation we should try and verify it before adding it in C:.  To avoid cluttering up the display, modern annotations, such as Purvis's, can be noted and credited in the N: field if they make sense. In this case we don't know what it means so no-one else will; I'd leave it out.
The ASCII double apostrophes on your keyboard can get "helpfully" misinterpreted as directional quotes by various software, HTML, some editing programs, and Wordpress (and perhaps the forum software?):  However, as long as the file stays as a .txt or .abc file this shouldn't happen. For this post I copy&pasted the text and the double apostrophes stayed as intended. If asked by the software, I save my work in UTF-8 (allows many more characters, over 1,000), which is backwards compatible with ASCII. I'm sure others could explain that better than I.
I am very confident that the B in bar 3 that you see is in fact a blot!
I have no preference as to the order of fields in the header, as long as X: and T: are at the beginning and K: is the last field before the tune body.
You can save yourself a lot of typing by leaving out the Z: field and adding it in globally at the end or in a template at the beginning, depending which program you're using. In Explorer it can be done within the program, or you or I can do it in a word processor.

X:375
T:O What My Bomey Graney Was. JBut.375
T:Oh What a Beau My Granny Was,aka. JBut.375
N:The title appears to be  a corruption of "What A Beau My Granny Was"
N:This, and close variations, is the title of a  tune in  4/4 found in a number
N:of 18thC/19thC tune books. This is a 6/8 version that one.
Z:vmp.2019.G(or Greg if you prefer etc).Smith.
C:'A Quickstep'
R:Quickstep
M:6/8
L:1/8
Q:3/8=100
K:D
gfd e2c|d2B A2G|FAd F2G|E3E3|
gfd e2c|d2B A2G|FDE c3|dD2 D3:|
|:GFA D2F|G2B E2G|FAd f2e|E3E3|
GFA d2f| g2e d2c|d2B A2G|FD2 D3:|

Pete Dunk

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2018, 10:47:37 PM »

Thanks Chris that's answered my only question which was about the syntax of the tune numbering in the title. Any new transcribers should be aware that there is a closed group on Facebook for VMP and other serious abc transcribers where we can chat about current projects and matters arising from them. Message me and I'll send you a link to join the group. If you want to add me on FB search for peter<dot>dunk<dot>75

There is also a forum for abc users which has really failed to take off. I think it's possible to add a section just for VMP transcribers to save non-Facebook users from missing out, please let me know if you think this is a good idea and I will try to sort it out. Welcome to all new volunteers and well done team, I think this will be a great project!
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2018, 11:00:27 PM »

There is also a forum for abc users which has really failed to take off. I think it's possible to add a section just for VMP transcribers to save non-Facebook users from missing out, please let me know if you think this is a good idea and I will try to sort it out.
Thanks Pete! I don't use Facebook so the VMP forum within melnet would be a good idea for me.
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #33 on: December 26, 2018, 11:22:35 PM »

Steve, you're already an Admin here but like so many others you have visited once or twice then got bored and wandered off. If you've forgotten your username, email address or original IP I can remind you of them, can't help with lost passwords though, sorry!
« Last Edit: December 26, 2018, 11:24:36 PM by Pete Dunk »
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2018, 11:35:36 PM »

Thanks Pete! I don't use Facebook so the VMP forum within melnet would be a good idea for me.

Just to be clear the ABC Transcriber's forum is entirely unrelated to Melnet. It's a free and completely private bit of webspace for geeks like you and I to hang out without attracting the attention of folks who think we are t*ats. They may be right but I reserve the right to be a t*at for my own amusement!
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2018, 09:50:43 AM »

For my part life is full enough without adding yet another forum group to remember to log into. This one is good for a single source of VMP news, with the outrider on Facebook, as we don't lose posts as we would on Facebook. It's publicly viewable so folk can see what we're up to; the only accidental viewers are other melodeon players and what have they got to laugh at ?  :||:  For me it would be pointless to add another.

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2018, 10:15:50 AM »

I think Chris has a good point. If we use this as the primary source for communication, we can all get here and therefore keep abreast of any issues arising.

I haven't had chance yet to make a start, so my first stumbling are to come.
The family have had guests all over the festive period so couldn't escape. I've also had a personal 'guest' in the form of a streaming cold so felt rubbish. Will make a start soon and post here if and when I need help.
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I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2018, 10:24:02 AM »

Meanwhile I've been asked whether I want the tunes to trickle in as they are done, or sent as a whole file when your batch is finished. In order to keep track of the workflow the latter option is necessary. However, I do understand the wish for new coders to see how they're doing before they get too far along, so if anyone wants to send in, say five, tunes for a critique I can cope with that. Then I will return them to you covered in red ink so that you get it right next time  ;D. (not really). Add them back in to the final file.
I will stress that almost nobody, myself included, can make a faultless transcription, so don't get uncomfortable when errors are caught or editorial judgements are altered. It's why all the work gets checked and how we can uphold a reputation for accuracy. But before you send a file to me it helps if you have thoroughly checked yourself first.
As for speed, some folk will do three batches, some one. Work at your own speed. If your enthusiasm wanes terminally, let me know and I'll reallocate the remainder of the batch. Remember this is voluntary.

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2018, 11:24:04 AM »

...There is also a forum for abc users which has really failed to take off. I think it's possible
to add a section just for VMP transcribers to save non-Facebook users from missing out...

I make a point of checking the abc-notation forum every few days. It's true (unfortunately) that traffic is low, so I can't help
thinking that a forum like melodeon.net is a 'better' place to discuss matters relating to ABC usage in the context of a specific
project (ie: VMP Buttrey MSS), if only because melodeon.net is a relatively densely populated, high-traffic region, so stuff gets
a good airing?

It's certainly the case that locking-out of non-Facebook users is to be avoided. I've given up on three groups in the past
couple of weeks (two chess, one music), because I couldn't find any contact details from the top-level Facebook page,
and they no longer have a web page (or never have) .

I was told that Facebook don't allow contact details as this forces people to sign up to their software, thus accelerating their
onward march towards world domination. Sounds almost bizarre enough to be true...
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 11:27:11 AM by lachenal74693 »
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #39 on: December 27, 2018, 03:06:18 PM »

I've just done the first twenty tunes from the block I've been given, in one sitting. They were easy because they were all from missing pages! This is how I've written them:

X:83
T:Old Iland Ladey. JBut.83 *missing*, The
S:https://buttreymilitarysocialtunes1800.wordpress.com/
M:4/4
L:1/8
Z:vmp.Peter Dunk.2018
K:C

To save time I copied this block of text to Notepad:

T:Old Iland Ladey. JBut.8 *missing*, The
S:https://buttreymilitarysocialtunes1800.wordpress.com/
M:4/4
L:1/8
Z:vmp.Peter Dunk.2018

I pasted that into the next tune between the X: and K: fields, edited the number and title (including removing or editing  ", The" as required) so each tune only took a couple of minutes once I was in the swing of it. When working on projects like this I generally create a 'shortcuts' text file with headers in a block ready to copy and paste into each tune. Each block of headers in the file has a different M: field with all of the common time signatures in it, I find this saves a lot of time and aids consistancy. YMMV.
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