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Author Topic: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project  (Read 29898 times)

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ChrisP

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #81 on: December 30, 2018, 09:19:59 PM »


In 4/4, the tune usually has a good, obvious 4 beats to a bar, so (being topical) think of 'O Come All Ye Faithful' or 'While Shepherds Watched Their Flocks'* for example.

In 2/2, the tune has a pulse of 2 beats in a bar. Many reels or 'straight' hornpipes have a pulse of 2 beats in a bar - think of 'Soldier's Joy' or 'Speed the Plough'. If you feel it in two beats/pulses to a bar, the tune flows nicely, whereas trying to feel a (rapid) 4 beats in a bar just makes the tune stodgy. I've seen both those tunes written in 4/4 and 2/2, but it's the latter which creates the pulse of 2 and so I would always advocate notating them in 2/2 not 4/4.


Can you point me at a good recorded example of each, by any chance, Steve?
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #82 on: December 30, 2018, 11:02:04 PM »

Can you point me at a good recorded example of each, by any chance, Steve?
Ooh! I'm sure there must be lots of recordings out there. One of my favourites is Anahata and Mary Humphreys playing  the William Clarke's version of Speed the Plough. It definitely has a basic pulse of two in a bar (even though the original MS is shown as 4/4 ;))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn4wwxkKexY
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Roger Hare

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #83 on: December 31, 2018, 05:51:58 AM »

Too many helpful and insightful responses to quote individually, but yes, I'm doing what 'the body
of the kirk' seems to be suggesting. Basically:

Using spaces to enable me to easily read my stuff (and for 'the proper grouping of notes').
Then deleting unecessary spaces (I hadn't picked up that necessary spaces were allowed - thank you).
Using the index listings as a 'crib' (as I say, I think I picked up one instance where the index entry
       was erroneous - a 5/4 where a 3/4 was intended.(*) I picked up the error by 'note counting' as
       suggested).

(*) I did actually get a bit of paper and draw out a poor effort at a copperplate 3 and 5 - with the vertical
stroke of the 5 and the diagonal stroke of the 3 being thinner than the rest of the numeral, it was easy
to create a 5 which could be mistaken for a 3 'in a poor light'...

Ta!
« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 06:08:00 AM by lachenal74693 »
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Roger Hare

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #84 on: January 01, 2019, 07:31:40 AM »

One question - several of 'my' tunes have what appears to be a 'third section', consisting simply of a series
of parallel, decreasing vertical lines followed by (what I think is) a glissando. I do not know how to notate
this, so I haven't bothered (I don't think it is possible to notate a glissando in EasyABC). Can anyone tell me
what this is all about?
It's a bit of penmanship to fill in the empty space on the stave at the end of a tune. It's just a calligraphic flourish which has no musical significance, so you can safely ignore it!

Absolutement, mon general! I now see that this is a 'standard practice' - thank you. I'm just looking
at page scans of an edition of Playford (https://archive.org/details/dancingmasterord00play/page/n3),
and lo and behold, this construct is used on almost every page...

FWIW, I arrived at the above URL via the National Library of Scotland Music Collection web page
(https://archive.org/details/nlsmusic), where I have been (intermittently) looking at Kohler's
Violin Repository. Not relevant to this particular thread/project, but there seems to be a lot of music
there. NLS seems to have scanned its music holdings and archived the scans to t'Internet Archive
site, I can't find these scans on the actual NLS web site...

Roger
« Last Edit: January 01, 2019, 08:00:42 AM by lachenal74693 »
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Pete Dunk

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #85 on: January 01, 2019, 11:55:15 AM »

The whole of Kohler's was transcribed to abc some time ago by John Chambers, he of JC's Tune Finder fame.
Kohler's
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Roger Hare

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #86 on: January 01, 2019, 12:50:58 PM »

The whole of Kohler's was transcribed to abc some time ago by John Chambers, he of JC's Tune Finder fame.
Kohler's
Ah! Thank you. I'd serendipitiously found one or two of the Kohler tunes, but not the whole shootin' match!
Roger
« Last Edit: January 01, 2019, 01:00:10 PM by lachenal74693 »
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #87 on: January 01, 2019, 01:43:42 PM »

You will find a link to that Playford, and much else, on this page I made for Folkopedia. http://folkopedia.efdss.org/wiki/List_of_historical_tunebooks,_some_of_which_are_available_on_the_internet
I add things to it as I come across them, so let me know if you find anything.

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #88 on: January 02, 2019, 09:25:19 AM »

I've just been asked by Sandy Cameron (the owner of the Buttrey mss.) to let you all know she's going to retake some of the photos to make them clearer...

Quote
I am going to be retaking some of the photos as the photos are blurry or distorted. I am going away but will get these done as soon as I can.

Note that some pages are very faint and a bit blurry so I can't fix them. Whoever does the later tunes is going to have a much easier time of it than the earlier ones.

Redoing Nos:

65 to 69
134a to 139
140 to 143
365 to 369
607 to 611
617 to 621
631 to 634
861
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #89 on: January 02, 2019, 10:35:34 AM »

Thank you Anahata for taking the initiative on this and communicating with Sandy.
It's really nice to think Sandy is being involved in helping us notate the ms.
Q
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #90 on: January 02, 2019, 12:34:52 PM »

I've just been asked by Sandy Cameron (the owner of the Buttrey mss.) to let you all know she's going to retake some of the photos to make them clearer...
Quote
I am going to be retaking some of the photos as the photos are blurry or distorted. I am going away but will get these done as soon as I can.
Note that some pages are very faint and a bit blurry so I can't fix them.

Would it be possible to request that instead of taking photos, that Sandy instead uses a scanner to capture the images? It would obviate the perspective distortion and any unwanted background. It doesn't have to be a sophisticated scanner. These days, most domestic inkjet printers also have a scanner option built in.
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #91 on: January 02, 2019, 01:09:49 PM »

On the other hand, if the spine of the book is delicate, flattening on a scanner can cause much damage. I would strongly suggest that we be satisfied with legibility rather than perfection.

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #92 on: January 02, 2019, 04:28:43 PM »

On the other hand, if the spine of the book is delicate, flattening on a scanner can cause much damage. I would strongly suggest that we be satisfied with legibility rather than perfection.
Good point about the delicate spine, Chris. Agree about not causing any damage.
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #93 on: January 02, 2019, 05:37:20 PM »

On the other hand, if the spine of the book is delicate, flattening on a scanner can cause much damage. I would strongly suggest that we be satisfied with legibility rather than perfection.
Good point about the delicate spine, Chris. Agree about not causing any damage.

Just a thought - you can get some good scanning apps for mobile phones which can be used to turn photos to pdf files. Some of them are free or have a limited amount of free file conversions. I've used them to good effect where a flatbed scanner was not an option. Could be of use here?
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #94 on: January 02, 2019, 10:49:08 PM »

There has been a change of plan, which means Sandra has got her husband to do the new pictures and they are on line already. If you are transcribing any of these it should be easier with the new images. I'll post most of her message, with the links, as it's for all of us:

Quote
I hope you know about my Facebook page. I created it solely to draw people to the Buttrey Fife Music website, as a lot of people look at Fb and it's easy to share. If you or any of your melodeon friends are FB people, please, please "Like" my FB page. This helps promote the page on the internet (as you well know, fellow webmaster). And please "Share" it with anyone you think might be interested in the Buttrey Manuscript.

https://www.facebook.com/buttreyfifemusic

I have just now posted on FB and the Buttrey blog, a list of which pages I have replaced. The manuscript is supposed to be turned over to Fort York (c/o City of Toronto) to be kept in a climate controlled environment, at the end of January, so if the melodeon people could look at their respective pages and let me know of any pages they would like retaken, that would be really helpful. As stated in the blog, some pages are really faded and can't be improved.

www.buttreyfifemusic.ca/blog

I am so grateful that you folks are making the ABC files. It has been a huge project creating the website then cropping and uploading all the photos and I have always been concerned that the site would get hacked or crash one day and all the work would be gone. There are really keen musicians who have encouraged me through this process as they wanted ALL the music, but that really was just a few musicians, and with what you are doing, people down the road will be able to obtain this music.

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #95 on: January 03, 2019, 12:29:16 AM »

Does Sandra know the significance of  Carroll-K. Purvis, I wonder. This name keeps cropping up in comment credits.
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #96 on: January 03, 2019, 07:15:04 AM »

I just wanted to say how amazed, excited and happy that Qs enquiry to me about one tune, and my quick bit of online research linking us to the Buttrey ms in Canada has led to this project - loads of people seem to be putting in all the hard work !
I'm looking forward to exploring the ms in more detail and of course trying out some of the tunes (could be a future ongoing tune recording theme perhaps ?)
It also makes me wonder about other similar ms which are not widely known about (other military archives maybe ?)

And Happy New Year to all !

J
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #97 on: January 03, 2019, 08:40:45 AM »

Julian: yes it seems to have been a wonderful coming together of events and I feel so lucky that we've got this project out of it all.

Anahata: haven't checked the fb page yet but am wondering if we can download or copy them for the non fb users amongst us?
I am on fb but am an infrequent user and don't know my way round very well.

Greg: yes I keep wondering the significance of the name...
Q
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #98 on: January 03, 2019, 09:11:03 AM »

Ah! I have taken a proper look at the Facebook page.
A lot of questions answered there, especially about work already done and in hand. I now know who Mr. Ian Bell and Mr. Ken Purvis are.

https://www.facebook.com/buttreyfifemusic

Here's a video by Mr. Bell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hl_QMb_XhY&feature=youtu.be
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 09:17:05 AM by Tone Dumb Greg »
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #99 on: January 03, 2019, 09:13:14 AM »

Thanks for heads-up.
Will get there soon
Q
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I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!
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