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Author Topic: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project  (Read 29658 times)

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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #280 on: January 31, 2019, 05:51:52 PM »

Not sure if this has already been asked, but  I can't find any previous for it. Anyone able to give a definitive answer on the J shaped symbol? I wonder if its a crotchet rest.
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #281 on: January 31, 2019, 06:45:07 PM »

Not sure if this has already been asked, but  I can't find any previous for it. Anyone able to give a definitive answer on the J shaped symbol? I wonder if its a crotchet rest.

Must be a crotchet rest.

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #282 on: February 01, 2019, 12:56:25 AM »

Not sure if this has already been asked, but  I can't find any previous for it. Anyone able to give a definitive answer on the J shaped symbol? I wonder if its a crotchet rest.
Must be a crotchet rest.
Yes, definitely.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #283 on: February 01, 2019, 09:06:42 AM »

Not sure if this has already been asked, but  I can't find any previous for it. Anyone able to give a definitive answer on the J shaped symbol? I wonder if its a crotchet rest.
Must be a crotchet rest.
Yes, definitely.

Ah, I can see it now. The top half of the contemporary symbol, maybe. Anyone seen it anywhere else?
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Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #284 on: February 01, 2019, 09:49:47 AM »

Can't quite see from your snapshot.
I had what sounds to be the same a couple of tunes back. Mine looked something like a '7', a straight top and straight down tail to it.
Definitely a straight top to the 7, not a blob as you'd expect on a note.
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I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #285 on: February 01, 2019, 10:50:50 AM »

In my brass band days (when we all lived in a rolled up newspaper in a muddy puddle), before the crotchet rest became a vertical squiggle, a lot of our music had eighth note rests looking like a sort of 7, as now, and the crotchet rests were the same but a mirror image. I never could remember which was which and used to dread them.

Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #286 on: February 01, 2019, 11:19:42 AM »

Can't quite see from your snapshot.


Is this better?
I can make it bigger, but it loses definition.
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Greg Smith
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #287 on: February 01, 2019, 11:50:28 AM »

Ah ok. Nope mine are definitely '7's' like Chris refers to.
Sounds like he had it bad when "'ee were a lad in't band"  ;D
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #288 on: February 01, 2019, 12:18:13 PM »

Ah ok. Nope mine are definitely '7's' like Chris refers to.
Sounds like he had it bad when "'ee were a lad in't band"  ;D
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A normal orientation '7' is a quaver rest; a reversed, backwards '7' is an old-style crotchet rest. Like Chris, I absolutely hate those because when sight-reading orchestral or band music at speed you have to react instantly to rests and the old-style rest hinders recognition. Music from 19th century French printers/publishers is notorious for using this form of rest.  >:(

The squiggle or 'dying tadpole' crotchet rest is by far the best.

Edit:
I can now see that the squiggle which Greg has posted is like a backwards '7' crotchet rest, but it has a left-wards curved tail, which does make recognition reasonably straightforward.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 12:26:03 PM by Steve_freereeder »
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #289 on: February 02, 2019, 01:59:07 PM »

This second batch seems to be throwing up a greater variety of challenges than the first.

What do you make of this picture? Does it mean anything to anyone?

Two questions:
1. What does the ornate N signify? I think it may indicate a harmony note, or contra melody and have, tentatively, notated it as below, because that seems to fit the situation.
2. Is the low B a note or a blot?

N:NB MS has an ornate N by the lower notes, this is taken to indicate a second voice harmony
...
|"_NB"[B,G][Cg]g:|
|:d|g>abc'|
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Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
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The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
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Pete Dunk

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #290 on: February 02, 2019, 02:03:32 PM »

I think the N is an ornate abreviation of 'Number", preceeding the number of the next tune on the stave below.

 YMMV!
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 02:12:33 PM by Pete Dunk »
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #291 on: February 02, 2019, 02:26:50 PM »

I think the N is an ornate abreviation of 'Number", preceeding the number of the next tune on the stave below.

 YMMV!

I know what you mean about the abbreviated Number, but why? I can't find another example of Nr looking like this (or like anything else), used in this way anywhere else. The C is clearly a notated C with a stem.
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Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #292 on: February 02, 2019, 02:50:51 PM »

I know what you mean about the abbreviated Number, but why? I can't find another example of Nr looking like this (or like anything else), used in this way anywhere else. The C is clearly a notated C with a stem.
It's definitely 'N' for number and the apparent rogue middle C is actually the lower case 'o' with a line through it, indicating an abbreviation, a bit like this: No. It's not a note at all. I think it looks like a note in your case because the 'o' has an ink blot, which has filled in the 'o'.

Here are some clearer examples:
Tune numbers 627, 628, 630. See attachment (now fixed). 
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 03:14:53 PM by Steve_freereeder »
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Pete Dunk

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #293 on: February 02, 2019, 02:52:50 PM »

I hadn't really noticed this but my current batch is littered with them, check out 753 and 754 on this page.
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #294 on: February 02, 2019, 04:58:56 PM »

I think the N is an ornate abreviation of 'Number", preceeding the number of the next tune on the stave below.

 YMMV!
Agreed.

Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #295 on: February 02, 2019, 05:29:06 PM »

I hadn't really noticed this but my current batch is littered with them, check out 753 and 754 on this page.

True enough. This is the first one I've noticed. Your's seem to be in different hand.

[Edit: Now I'm looking correctly I'm finding loads.   :|bl

and Steve is right. An O with a bar through. Fooled by my expectations]
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 05:54:19 PM by Tone Dumb Greg »
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Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
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The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
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Sandra Cameron

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #296 on: February 02, 2019, 05:53:40 PM »

I hadn't really noticed this but my current batch is littered with them, check out 753 and 754 on this page.
True enough. This is the first one I've noticed. Your's seem to be in different hand.

[Edit: Now I'm looking correctly I'm finding loads.   :|bl]
There's actually Ns with a superscript o throughout, sometimes more noticeable because a more recent (relatively) person wrote over some of the tunes or titles in a stronger ink. eg. Tunes 715 and 717 are the original lighter ink. Number 716 and 718 the stronger ink. A fifer here tells me that some tunes were even transposed right on the same staff with darker notes below the original ones.
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #297 on: February 02, 2019, 05:56:01 PM »

Test image download:

Please can you try downloading and opening the following file:
https://buttreymilitarysocialtunes1800.wordpress.com/melodies/melodies-624-694/
Specifically the image of tunes 626 - 630.
Can you open the downloaded jpg file? I keep getting an error message saying the file is corrupt or damaged and can't be opened (tried both in Mac preview and Photoshop)

Sandra says it works OK for her. But I had to take a screen shot of the web page to be able to save and view it.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 05:57:45 PM by Steve_freereeder »
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #298 on: February 02, 2019, 06:07:44 PM »

Test image download:

Please can you try downloading and opening the following file:
https://buttreymilitarysocialtunes1800.wordpress.com/melodies/melodies-624-694/
Specifically the image of tunes 626 - 630.
Can you open the downloaded jpg file? I keep getting an error message saying the file is corrupt or damaged and can't be opened (tried both in Mac preview and Photoshop)

Sandra says it works OK for her. But I had to take a screen shot of the web page to be able to save and view it.

Works ok for me, if I have the right page. The one with the largish stain. I copied and pasted and Saved as ###. Both worked.
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Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

Steve_freereeder

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #299 on: February 02, 2019, 06:25:44 PM »

Works ok for me, if I have the right page. The one with the largish stain. I copied and pasted and Saved as ###. Both worked.
Thanks, Greg. Yes that's the page, with the stain. Glad it's worked for you - I don't know why it's not working for me. :(
All the other pages on the website save and open all right for me.
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