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Author Topic: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project  (Read 30168 times)

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Steve_freereeder

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #300 on: February 02, 2019, 06:35:55 PM »

Works ok for me, if I have the right page. The one with the largish stain. I copied and pasted and Saved as ###. Both worked.
Thanks, Greg. Yes that's the page, with the stain. Glad it's worked for you - I don't know why it's not working for me. :(
All the other pages on the website save and open all right for me.
Further to my previous reply, I then tried copying and pasting into a blank open document (a) in Preview and (b) Photoshop. I was then able to successfully save as a jpg file from both. This has been an extra step not previously necessary. Something's changed somewhere along the line. But never mind, I have good copy of the file now!  Thanks for your help. (:)
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Pete Dunk

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #301 on: February 02, 2019, 06:36:18 PM »

Please can you try downloading and opening the following file:
https://buttreymilitarysocialtunes1800.wordpress.com/melodies/melodies-624-694/
Specifically the image of tunes 626 - 630.

I right clicked this and saved it straight to my desktop as a .jpg, no problem. Maybe a Mac thing?
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Pete Dunk

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #302 on: February 02, 2019, 06:44:09 PM »

Further to my previous reply, I then tried copying and pasting into a blank open document (a) in Preview and (b) Photoshop. I was then able to successfully save as a jpg file from both. This has been an extra step not previously necessary. Something's changed somewhere along the line.
I do things slightly differently. I 'select' everything on the webpage from the first tune in the batch to the last, copy it to the clipboard, paste it into Word (narrow margins), resize the images slightly to fit the page then save the whole thing as a PDF. I pop the PDF on my iPad to view and easily zoom in on the pages whilst transcribing onto the PC, I find this quick and easy.
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #303 on: February 02, 2019, 06:46:02 PM »

I right clicked this and saved it straight to my desktop as a .jpg, no problem. Maybe a Mac thing?
Yes - that's what I usually do too, with no problems. Except for this one page, which is the one which Sandra re-posted to replace the previously squished one. Maybe it is a maciferrous thing. But why?

A short time later:
I tried saving the image directly from Safari instead of Firefox which I normally use. Bingo!

Anyway - I've got it now.
Thanks for your help and suggestions.  (:)
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #304 on: February 02, 2019, 07:38:23 PM »


Thanks, Greg. Yes that's the page, with the stain. Glad it's worked for you - I don't know why it's not working for me. :(
All the other pages on the website save and open all right for me.

Is that a blood stain?
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Greg Smith
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #305 on: February 03, 2019, 07:48:10 PM »

There are some truly awesome tunes among the Retreats if you take the time to let your mind wander. For instance, I imagine this one as a Sussex song sung by Shirley Collins.
X:3
T:Retreat. JBut.003, A
B:John Buttrey MS, poss. Lincolnshire, early 19thC
S:https://buttreymilitarysocialtunes1800.wordpress.com/
Z:Village Music Project 2018 Roger Hare
M:3/4
L:1/8
Q:3/4=35
K:D
|:AF|D2DFEG|FGAF dB|AFDF AB|G2 F2 E2|
D2DFEG|FGA2d2|cecA Bc | A4:|
|:de|fdB2cd | ecA2dc | BAGFED | D2C3A |
B2c2{e}dc/B/ | A2G2F2 |((3EFG)F2E2| D4:|

Roger Hare

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #306 on: February 04, 2019, 07:16:14 AM »

There are some truly awesome tunes among the Retreats if you take the time to let your mind wander. For instance, I imagine this one as a Sussex song sung by Shirley Collins.
X:3
T:Retreat. JBut.003, A
B:John Buttrey MS, poss. Lincolnshire, early 19thC
S:https://buttreymilitarysocialtunes1800.wordpress.com/
Z:Village Music Project 2018 Roger Hare
M:3/4
L:1/8
Q:3/4=35
K:D
|:AF|D2DFEG|FGAF dB|AFDF AB|G2 F2 E2|
D2DFEG|FGA2d2|cecA Bc | A4:|
|:de|fdB2cd | ecA2dc | BAGFED | D2C3A |
B2c2{e}dc/B/ | A2G2F2 |((3EFG)F2E2| D4:|

Two points, if I  may:
1. Oops! I see I have managed to leave in some unecessary spaces in the file, contrary to VMP
    SOPs. I will send an edited version of the  file to CP. Sorry folks!
2. Yes! It hasn't been mentioned much in this thread (to my surprise), but some of these tunes
    are just plain superb. Some of them are (deceptively?) simple but they just blow my socks off!
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Anahata

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #307 on: February 04, 2019, 08:26:04 AM »

Also there's probably a missing space in the third whole bar of the B music. I haven't checked the image, but in 3/4 it would be usual to bar them in pairs
|BA GF ED|
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Roger Hare

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #308 on: February 04, 2019, 09:07:19 AM »

Also there's probably a missing space in the third whole bar of the B music. I haven't checked the image, but in 3/4 it would be usual to bar them in pairs
|BA GF ED|

I'm pretty sure the image has: |BAGFED| My limited experience/knowledge tells me the same as you say, but (from memory)
I came across a couple more examples like this. I'm now doing the 'Compleat Tutor for the Fife' which I stumbled across a few
days ago, and just came across this: |a>gf>ed>c| - I think you might expect that to be |a>g f>e d>c|?

That one is in 'Foot March 8 Division' (p.19), and there are a couple of similar examples in the same tune.

Roger
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Anahata

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #309 on: February 04, 2019, 09:33:38 AM »

I'm pretty sure the image has: |BAGFED| My limited experience/knowledge tells me the same as you say, but (from memory)
I came across a couple more examples like this.

Yes, now I've woken up properly and got in front of a real computer - you're right, sorry!
And there are other examples of 6 quavers all beamed together on the same page.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #310 on: February 04, 2019, 09:48:10 AM »

Also there's probably a missing space in the third whole bar of the B music. I haven't checked the image, but in 3/4 it would be usual to bar them in pairs
|BA GF ED|

I'm pretty sure the image has: |BAGFED|...

I have had a few like this. I have been pairing them to aid readibility and noting the change with a comment under the bar.
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Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
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The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #311 on: February 04, 2019, 11:36:40 AM »

I don't get aereated about spaces around barlines any longer, they can help when you've got old eyes.
The beaming-or-not question likewise isn't critical. They're usually fairly randomly applied in these manuscripts, and as long as the beats are intelligible then readability for the average muso is what counts. Dividing a mixture of quavers and semi-quavers into beats is often worth doing.
It is an often followed convention for music that has lyrics attached to generally have no beaming, but in these mss we assume they are not for singing from.

Sandra Cameron

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #312 on: February 04, 2019, 08:30:19 PM »

Is that a blood stain?
The stain didn't bleed through to the other side of the page nor mark the page beside it. A couple of pages before is another stain. Definitely not the colour of the ink. My guess - could be blood. But no thickness to it. Have attached a photo of the other page with stain (without the muted sunlight usually used to make the notes show up better. All pages are actually brownish paper with brownish black ink.)
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Sandra Cameron

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #313 on: February 04, 2019, 08:31:43 PM »

Chris - Are you going to be transcribing the un-numbered tunes and harmonies ?
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Sandra Cameron

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #314 on: February 04, 2019, 10:05:12 PM »

Noticed there weren't any photos of the actual manuscript on its website so added a few today. You can see them here:  http://www.buttreyfifemusic.ca/drawings/buttrey-manuscript-cover/
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #315 on: February 04, 2019, 10:13:59 PM »

Noticed there weren't any photos of the actual manuscript on its website so added a few today. You can see them here:  http://www.buttreyfifemusic.ca/drawings/buttrey-manuscript-cover/

Thank you Sandra. The thing that strikes me about this manuscript is a feeling of connection to those involved in it over the centuries. I don't know who they were, but I have a definite feel of what they were doing and why they did it. 
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Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
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ChrisP

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #316 on: February 05, 2019, 01:19:38 AM »

Chris - Are you going to be transcribing the un-numbered tunes and harmonies ?

Yes

Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #317 on: February 05, 2019, 11:30:37 PM »

Here's a something a bit different, for those that enjoy this sort of thing.

JBut.728, The Wounded Hufsay

This tune was originally scored in 6/8, which, along with 3/4, is a usual time signature of  The Wounded Hussar. However, is has been heavily over written by modifications converting it to common time. These make it tricky to work out exactly how the original score, or the modified score, should read.

I have been working on deciphering it but, anyone else up for a bit of fun.
Suggestions on how to present the results welcomed.

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Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

Sandra Cameron

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #318 on: February 06, 2019, 12:18:38 AM »

The thing that strikes me about this manuscript is a feeling of connection to those involved in it over the centuries. I don't know who they were, but I have a definite feel of what they were doing and why they did it.
We don't know who had the ms before John Buttrey, or how many people had it before him, but to bring John closer to us, here's a photo of his grandson Alfred Buttrey with my mother ! (Alfred's son and his wife, Margaret, were the only relatives to send me a card and money on my birthday so they have never seemed like ancient history to me.)
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 02:52:19 PM by Sandra Cameron »
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #319 on: February 06, 2019, 12:47:46 AM »

JBut.728, The Wounded Hufsay

This tune was originally scored in 6/8, which, along with 3/4, is a usual time signature of  The Wounded Hussar. However, is has been heavily over written by modifications converting it to common time. These make it tricky to work out exactly how the original score, or the modified score, should read.

I have been working on deciphering it but, anyone else up for a bit of fun.
Suggestions on how to present the results welcomed.

Blimey, that's a tricky one.  :o

My feeling would be to try to identify the original written version first and transcribe that. Then leave a couple of blank comment lines (%) then add a new T: field followed by your transcription of the second, over-written version. If you didn't know, you can specify a change of time signature mid-tune by adding an M: field in square brackets: [M:3/4]. Similarly, a change of tempo mid-tune can also go in square brackets e.g. [Q:1/4 = 110].
Use the N: fields to record your thinking and methodology.
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