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Author Topic: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project  (Read 19191 times)

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ChrisP

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #320 on: February 06, 2019, 09:08:17 AM »

JBut.728, The Wounded Hufsay

This tune was originally scored in 6/8, which, along with 3/4, is a usual time signature of  The Wounded Hussar. However, is has been heavily over written by modifications converting it to common time. These make it tricky to work out exactly how the original score, or the modified score, should read.

I have been working on deciphering it but, anyone else up for a bit of fun.
Suggestions on how to present the results welcomed.

Blimey, that's a tricky one.  :o

My feeling would be to try to identify the original written version first and transcribe that. Then leave a couple of blank comment lines (%) then add a new T: field followed by your transcription of the second, over-written version. If you didn't know, you can specify a change of time signature mid-tune by adding an M: field in square brackets: [M:3/4]. Similarly, a change of tempo mid-tune can also go in square brackets e.g. [Q:1/4 = 110].
Use the N: fields to record your thinking and methodology.

Don't forget that this isn't the Dead Sea Scrolls we're transcribing. By all means salvage what you can, if you can, but it isn't always possible to arrive at a perfect sounding transcription that is a credible interpretation of what Buttrey had in mind. It's OK sometimes to say "indecipherable".

Pete Dunk

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #321 on: February 06, 2019, 09:21:37 AM »

It's OK sometimes to say "indecipherable".


I had a handful of those in my first batch!
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #322 on: February 06, 2019, 02:17:38 PM »

Wonder if the ink ration had been relaxed  ;)
Phew. Yep, a bit of a conundrum.
Never knew the Dead Sea Scrolls had ABC notation in them  ;D
...but I take the point!
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I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Sandra Cameron

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #323 on: February 06, 2019, 03:57:53 PM »

Now changes of pen etc really intrigues me. There's a definite change of penmanship at tune #545, going back to the larger, lighter notes most of the time at #607 then a change to darker ink at the last 2 bars of #662 and again at #718. Then change to smaller at #733 and smaller again at #782 to the end of tunes in that direction #961. (The rest of tunes (unnumbered) start after the Indexes and Harmonies at the opposite end of the ms.)

Different authors? Different pens? Have you had any thoughts on this ?

[We know another regiment started the manuscript as the 34th didn't go to the Nile or St. Kitts. John was discharged in 1814 in England. One of the last tunes references the Queen so Ken Purivs figures this means it has to be after 1837, so John kept writing after he was discharged. He was also hospitalized a lot during his time in India which apparently is quite normal for India. When the script changes for only a tune or so, I figure he just asked a mate to write a tune down themselves? ]

You folks know so much more about music and all. Hoping you have ideas or thoughts on this.
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Julian S

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #324 on: February 10, 2019, 08:12:20 AM »

Having just got back from travels, I've had chance to catch up and read posts - really interesting.
I hadn't realised that British regiments hired civilian bandmasters (presumably not responsible for the fife and drum section with its battlefield role) in the 19th century, until the establishment of the Royal Military School of Music in 1857. Evidently this followed a joint performance by around twenty regimental bands during the Crimean war, in 1854. Playing the National Anthem, the result was apparently a cacophony as each band played their own arrangements - and quite probably in different key and pitch, as choice of instruments suffered as well (Thinks...been to lots of sessions like that !)

The RMSM has a museum, and presumably archives, which might well be worth a visit (and the staff there might well be interested in the project...)

Julian
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 09:42:13 AM by Julian S »
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Roger Hare

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #325 on: February 10, 2019, 09:11:25 AM »

The RMSM has a museum, and presumably archives, which might well be worth a visit (and the staff there might well be interested in the project...)

I just had a quick peek at the website. The museum claims to hold 'manuscripts', amongst other exhibits, and there
is an electronic mail address.

I'm wondering whether to... Not sure if contact should come from a mere bystander (though at CP's request, I am
slowly transcribing the 'Compleat Tutor for Fife' which was discussed here a short while ago). I am a little hesitant
about pushing myself forward in this way. Thoughts please, from the 'body of the kirk'?...
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 09:17:36 AM by Roger Hare »
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Winston Smith

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #326 on: February 10, 2019, 09:26:32 AM »

Shy bairns get nowt!
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Rob Lands

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #327 on: February 10, 2019, 10:08:23 AM »

https://www.army.mod.uk/who-we-are/corps-regiments-and-units/corps-of-army-music/museum-of-army-music/
I searched for their music archives. If the link is good you will see they mention manuscripts.  My daughter did a workshop with one of their bands a few years back they were very approachable (perhaps recruiting!)
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Pete Dunk

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #328 on: February 10, 2019, 09:59:40 PM »

Thoughts please, from the 'body of the kirk'?...
The body of the kirk tells you to do as you will and as Chris invites you. Stop mithering and just get on with it!
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #329 on: February 10, 2019, 10:42:00 PM »

Thoughts please, from the 'body of the kirk'?...
The body of the kirk tells you to do as you will and as Chris invites you. Stop mithering and just get on with it!

Or, as they say down 'ere, JFD it.
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Greg Smith
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Roger Hare

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #330 on: February 11, 2019, 06:34:32 AM »

Or, as they say down 'ere, JFD it.

...Stop mithering and just get on with it!

Shy bairns get nowt!

OK, I know a kicking when I get one. Politely worded and suitably cringing message sent to
t'curator of t'museum. I just didn't want to pre-empt anything from more august folk than
my 'umble self. We shall see what happens...

Roger
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 06:40:07 AM by Roger Hare »
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Julian S

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #331 on: February 11, 2019, 07:12:15 AM »

Vote of thanks to Roger - feeling a bit guilty myself as I had been thinking of contacting them anyway with a general enquiry but had put this on hold until feeling better (seasonal lurgi and post holiday downer I think...)

J
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Winston Smith

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #332 on: February 11, 2019, 09:02:06 AM »

"post holiday downer"?

I hope not, Julian. The lovely collection of melodeons which you seem to have should be enough to lift even the very lowest of spirits. Buck up lad!
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #333 on: February 12, 2019, 09:31:57 AM »

I am going through my second batch of tunes, at the moment, attempting to proof read them and I have made some interesting discoveries. Don't know if it's just the tunes I have, or more general.

I have a whole bunch of strathspeys which have, clearly, been copied directly from Aird's Airs, vol.6. Apart from a few copying errors, they are identical down to  mistakes taken from the printed score.

Interesting as that is (to me, at least), it's not the main point, though. Comparing Buttrey with the printed copy drew my attention to a load of ornaments I had missed on the MS. Mostly trills and grace notes, plus a few phrasing marks. These are so faint as to be barely visible but, you can easily spot them when you know they are there, exactly as in Aird's.

I'm busy going through my transcriptions again, filling in the missing detail.

.
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Greg Smith
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nigelr

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #334 on: February 12, 2019, 04:46:28 PM »

Interesting as that is (to me, at least), it's not the main point, though. Comparing Buttrey with the printed copy drew my attention to a load of ornaments I had missed on the MS. Mostly trills and grace notes, plus a few phrasing marks. These are so faint as to be barely visible but, you can easily spot them when you know they are there, exactly as in Aird's.
I've had quite a few of those in the 2nd batch as well.  I've taken to having the images zoomed to 170% minimum which means they are a bit easier to pick up on.
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Sandra Cameron

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #335 on: February 16, 2019, 09:07:36 PM »

I've heard that you are really moving along, so I've looked over the "Unnumbered Melodies" at the other end of the manuscript. These seem to be fine except "Poor Little Sweep", above the drawing of the Hunters, which was missing several bars of music. Will work on Harmonies next. They are fairly blurry.

Do let me know if you find you need any photos retaken.
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Sandra Cameron

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #336 on: February 17, 2019, 07:21:01 AM »

All the Harmony images have been replaced with clearer images.
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Pete Dunk

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #337 on: February 17, 2019, 08:30:09 AM »

Thank you Sandra.  ;D
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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #338 on: February 19, 2019, 08:58:22 AM »

« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 09:01:34 AM by Sandra Cameron »
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: The VMP Buttrey MSS Project
« Reply #339 on: February 19, 2019, 09:58:43 AM »

This is the last conundrum in the batch I am working on.
The tune is a Troop and starts with what seems to be a bugle call

These are my notes at the moment.
N:NB1 There appears to be an upside down fermata against this note [the A in bar 2]
N:NB2 There is a word written underneath this note which is difficult to decipher [the D in bar 8] but may read "Note" or may not.
N:The intentions of the fermata and the written instruction are unclear but may indicate some kind of D.S.

[Edit: As Roger points out, there are also standard fermata above both these notes]

Am I barking up the wrong tree?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 06:12:49 PM by Tone Dumb Greg »
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Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
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