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Author Topic: Beginning B/C  (Read 4680 times)

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Neil

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Beginning B/C
« on: December 22, 2018, 11:48:06 AM »

Starting out on the B/C learning journey, I thought I should join the forum so that I could ask those beginner questions - things about posture/holding the beast, managing the air button, getting the brain to realise that pushing is not pulling and vice-versa; in other words all those things that baffle the beginner but which don't even need thinking about later on.

But then I read through all the old threads in this sub-forum and realised that the answers were already there. So thanks to everyone who has contributed to the great pool of knowledge on this forum. I'll keep reading (and practising).
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Barlow

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Re: Beginning B/C
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2018, 04:30:54 PM »

Been there done that.
Well...am still there, still doing that.

Reading through this part of the forum from the very start I found very useful, it is amazing, especially seeing people progress through their replies.

....however, there are many contradictions, most of which are answered by "which ever suits you best", but that answer is not always a good one.

The main one (B/C) I wish I had adopted from the very start, and to misquote from Animal Farm: "2 fingers (well 3 actually) good, 4 fingers bad". I had adapted a system using 4 fingers and even strengthening my little finger, but as it turns out, for no practical gain (in fact quite the opposite).

And couple that with something possibly a bit more arguable but can be justified: use different fingers when you tap the same button (even for same note).

I have lots to say about my own journey but I will leave it at the above for now.

Good luck and enjoy.
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Gromit

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Re: Beginning B/C
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2018, 05:08:38 PM »

Quote
2 fingers (well 3 actually) good, 4 fingers bad

3 or 4 fingers? - I learnt using 4 fingers, not all the time but occasionally and glad I did (thanks to Luke Daniels), I find it gives more options.

Quote
use different fingers when you tap the same button (even for same note)

Mostly but not always as sometimes it's easier to use the same finger.

I'd advise anyone starting to play B/C to get a tutor like Damien Connolly's The Irish Accordion Tutor for B/C - it shows fingering suggestions that make sense and can be adapted to your needs as you progress.
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Neil

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Re: Beginning B/C
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2018, 09:00:52 PM »

Good luck and enjoy.

Thank you - and yes, the fingering was another on my list of things to research. Again I have found lots of useful advice and video help, and I'm used to working out alternate fingerings on fretted instruments too.My plan for the present is to save the little finger for grace notes, but also not to worry to much about absolute rules.

Also the using different fingers on the same button seems to come naturally - again, the same thing happens on fretted instruments, depending on where you are heading next.

And thanks to Gromit for the recommendation of a tutor book. All grist to the mill ...
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Martin P

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Re: Beginning B/C
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2018, 11:04:17 AM »

Personally, I play D/G and C/F boxes, but definately 4 fingers for RH for me. Using the pinky for high notes, especially if cross-row is invaluable. IMHO.
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blackdot1234

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Re: Beginning B/C
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2018, 12:11:24 PM »

hi i have played b/c for about 45 years and tought  people to play also very important to get 1to1 lessons to start with. then group lessons after that there are a lot of people doing skype lessons  top players are available  that way good luck with it
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boxer

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Re: Beginning B/C
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2018, 03:31:11 PM »

Everyone who plays B/C seems to develop a personal style, probably because no two people have the same sets of bones, joints, tendons and muscles.  One to one tuition may be good if the tutor's style is one that matches the capabilities of your own hands.  You might be in expensive trouble if it doesn't. 

A lot of people seem to evolve their playing style without help, by a process of elimination.  The problem with self-teaching is that whilst it's hard enough to learn a technique that seems to offer advantages, in the event of its turning out not to do so, and your wishing to eliminate it, un-learning is a great deal harder and takes a lot longer than learning it in the first place. 

Personally I've found that having a proper understanding of the rhythm and phrasing of the music you intend to play makes it easier to find effective ways to play it on the B/C keyboard.  The B/C system doesn't take any prisoners and you must know exactly what you need to make the instrument do with each note, as well as the proper order in which to play them.   

B/C's all about the journey, not the destination.  Good luck with you endeavour.

 
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Stiamh

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Re: Beginning B/C
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2018, 04:39:57 PM »

... having a proper understanding of the rhythm and phrasing of the music you intend to play makes it easier to find effective ways to play it...

I would go further and say that such an understanding is essential. And that this applies not just to B/C, but to any system of button box, and indeed to any instrument of any kind, and any style of music.

For anyone starting out on B/C, I have one piece of advice: stick with it - it's a demanding system. And when you find you are getting stuck, don't stay stuck - go out and find help.

Rog

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Re: Beginning B/C
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2018, 08:21:04 PM »

It does cost a bit...but I highly recommend the Online Irish Academy of Music, esp for beginners. See here: https://www.oaim.ie
You get video tutorials etc. Even if you just buy a month or two it’s worth it to get going.

Dick Rees

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Re: Beginning B/C
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2018, 09:17:39 PM »

... having a proper understanding of the rhythm and phrasing of the music you intend to play makes it easier to find effective ways to play it...

I would go further and say that such an understanding is essential. And that this applies not just to B/C, but to any system of button box, and indeed to any instrument of any kind, and any style of music.

...and I'll re-state it from one more angle:

Once you really know a tune and have it firmly fixed in your ear (heart, head, hands and feet), the music will fully inform you how to play it.
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Beginning B/C
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2018, 12:35:04 AM »

Once you really know a tune and have it firmly fixed in your ear (heart, head, hands and feet), the music will fully inform you how to play it.

Yes, indeed - excellent advice, and applicable to all instruments (including voice).
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Barlow

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Re: Beginning B/C
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2018, 12:32:53 PM »

There are so many contradictions to contend with. eg

  • I have read one person say that they teach their students to use their fingers as if they were superglued to the keys until it has to move, whereas another has said to make sure there is always a gap between the key and your finger after playing a note

    A lesson on Youtube that the player has a rule not to use the same finger for more than 3 notes in a row. Others have said always use a different finger for each note

    and "Take the thumb strap off as it is never used". I know players of many years who couldn't play a note without the thumb strap

I suppose the correct answer is one or the other or somewhere in between.
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Stiamh

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Re: Beginning B/C
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2018, 03:10:24 PM »

There are so many contradictions to contend with [...] I suppose the correct answer is one or the other or somewhere in between.

The correct answer, if there is one, is what makes sense to you and is based on a logical reason that you understand and accept, and what improves your playing when you give it a serious trial.

Unless you're very young and pliable and have regular lessons from a teacher with the authority of an old-testament prophet, you need to approach this box-playing caper with a discriminating, intelligent, experimental approach. B/C will require this especially. It's a demanding system - you have been warned.

JohnS

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Re: Beginning B/C
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2018, 09:12:31 AM »

I don't think there is any contradiction about thumbstraps, you won't find many well-established B/C players who use one.   Take it off, your thumb will need to be constantly on the move up and down the edge of the fingerboard.
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richard.fleming

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Re: Beginning B/C
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2018, 10:27:56 AM »

[quote "Take it off, your thumb will need to be constantly on the move up and down the edge of the fingerboard".
[/quote]
Wedge the bottom  of the keyboard/righthand end against the outside of your thigh. That's pretty well universal in Ireland. Lengthen the strap to make this possible. Then you hardly need your thumb to press at all. You can almost play without it. And you won't get any bellows slap either. Your hand will be freer to move up and down, and you can use whichever finger of the four is nearest to the note you want to play.
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Barlow

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Re: Beginning B/C
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2018, 11:35:23 AM »

Re thumbstrap. I soon ditched itbut it was necessary at the start.

There are so many contradictions to contend with [...] I suppose the correct answer is one or the other or somewhere in between.

The correct answer, if there is one, is what makes sense to you and is based on a logical reason that you understand and accept, and what improves your playing when you give it a serious trial.

Unless you're very young and pliable and have regular lessons from a teacher with the authority of an old-testament prophet, you need to approach this box-playing caper with a discriminating, intelligent, experimental approach. B/C will require this especially. It's a demanding system - you have been warned.

Sir, your excellent warning has come too late. I am in and I can't get out. As a wise Irish man said to me "The instrument won't let you".
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Barlow

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Re: Beginning B/C
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2018, 11:45:22 AM »

[quote "Take it off, your thumb will need to be constantly on the move up and down the edge of the fingerboard".
Wedge the bottom  of the keyboard/righthand end against the outside of your thigh. That's pretty well universal in Ireland. Lengthen the strap to make this possible. Then you hardly need your thumb to press at all. You can almost play without it. And you won't get any bellows slap either. Your hand will be freer to move up and down, and you can use whichever finger of the four is nearest to the note you want to play.
[/quote]

I see the reasons for this of course. My parent session is ITM and that's the direction I am going and want to go. However another session is more Morris and they play lots of standie-uppy stuff whereas the Irish session needs to be sat for easy access to that pint. And the ciggies back in the day. 

I have a Castagnari Lilly which is small, light and compact, and I feel comfortable with it hanging on my chest. I practice standing up too, so this suits. I realise my playing will be freer and less hampered if I sat down as indicated above, but I don't want to limit myself to seated playing.

I realise that this is not such a big deal in the scheme of things, and probably won't be a problem. Or will it?
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JohnS

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Re: Beginning B/C
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2018, 02:01:00 PM »

You can play B/C standing as Shane Mitchell of Dervish capably demonstrates (or maybe he plays C#/D but the same argument applies).  But use two shoulder straps not a thumbstrap.
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Pearse Rossa

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Re: Beginning B/C
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2018, 10:07:46 PM »

You can play B/C standing.....

In Ireland, there are two types of box player (actually there are more than two, but for the purpose of this reply,
I will stick with two).
Those who are serious about the music and are firmly rooted in and respectful of the tradition, and
those who stand up whilst playing.
If you want to be taken seriously as a box player of Irish music; sit down.
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Pearse Rossa

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Re: Beginning B/C
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2018, 10:27:37 PM »

Starting out on the B/C learning journey...
B/C is no more difficult than any other two row system. Don't be put off by people telling you otherwise.
In Ireland, there are literally thousands of kids and youngsters (not to mention adults) playing B/C to a very
high standard. And this high standard will be achieved, very often, within months or a few short years.
Those who choose C#/D style will do so because they have a preference for a certain style, not because B/C is
'too difficult'.
It has been my experience that if someone has failed at trying to play B/C, it's because they didn't have much
aptitude to begin with.

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