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Author Topic: Purchasing advice for a complete newbie  (Read 4687 times)

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boxer

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Re: Purchasing advice for a complete newbie
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2018, 11:12:32 AM »

If you think the naming of boxes is a mess, have a look at the variety of instruments that get called (insert term or leave blank) mandolas.
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Nigel

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Re: Purchasing advice for a complete newbie
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2018, 12:06:06 PM »

PM sent
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MarioP

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Re: Purchasing advice for a complete newbie
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2018, 03:16:17 PM »

Welcome to the madness 🤪
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Re: Purchasing (and now learning!) advice for a complete newbie
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2019, 05:06:19 PM »

Thank you everyone for all the advice. In the end I chose a second-hand Scarlatti Nero. 2 voice, 2 rows, 8 bass buttons - cheapest in the shop in the end, actually! I liked the sound of a three voice one I played on and I liked the idea of 2 1/2 rows so that it's possible to play in more keys, but in the end I went for simple, knowing that this is unlikely to be my last instrument and I will be in a much better position to buy a better instrument after I've played for a while.

(So please don't tell me I shouldn't have bought this one or that X or Y brand / model would have been better!)

I bought some books by "Mally" and I've been trying to practice playing up and down scales to get my head around the whole draw/push-being-different-notes thing...

My next question, if I may... What's everyone's advice for the best way to get on with playing?
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Purchasing (and now learning!) advice for a complete newbie
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2019, 05:25:21 PM »


...My next question, if I may... What's everyone's advice for the best way to get on with playing?

There's a question and a half.

I reckon a good face to face tutor is far and away the best, especially at the beginning, supplemented  by a tutor book that suits the music you want to play. Recommendations will soon be forthcoming). A good tutor will be able to set you up and get you going far quicker than you are likely to manage by yourself.

If there are no tutors close to you, next best is Mel Biggs, according to popular wisdom in these parts.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 05:27:12 PM by Tone Dumb Greg »
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Helena Handcart

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Re: Purchasing (and now learning!) advice for a complete newbie
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2019, 05:41:00 PM »


My next question, if I may... What's everyone's advice for the best way to get on with playing?


Honestly I'd recommmend Ed Rennie's Melodeon Tutor. It got me off to a flying start and unlike other books it includes a DVD as well as a CD. The DVD shows the two sides of the melodeon in split screen so you can see what the left and right hands are doing - invaluable. It also uses a really neat colour and number-based notation to get you started without having to read music. 
 
I had some lessons about a year and a bit in but the book was a great start - and all for about the same cost as a single music lesson.


Also - come along to Melodeon Playgroup of course.  The Absolute Beginners class will be using Ed's system BTW.
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Eshed

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Re: Purchasing (and now learning!) advice for a complete newbie
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2019, 11:16:49 PM »

My next question, if I may... What's everyone's advice for the best way to get on with playing?
My advice would be to not rush it. There's this urge to know more and more tunes which is very counterproductive, especially early on.
Start with no more than 3 tunes and practice them until you're satisfied. Then record yourself playing them.
Trying to record will be a nice challenge on its own, but listening to the result will most likely make you far less satisfied than you were previously.
Go and practice the relevant bits, rinse and repeat.
Always make sure one of the tunes you're playing you don't quite get yet. Put into words what you need to improve in order to play that tune.
Meet other players and play with other players, preferably melodeonistas but not necessarily. Lessons can also help in a similar way I suspect.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 02:02:27 AM by Eshed »
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Purchasing advice for a complete newbie
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2019, 11:59:21 PM »

Everything Eshed said.
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Greg Smith
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Purchasing advice for a complete newbie
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2019, 08:53:56 AM »

The best advice I was given was try and get both hands going from the start.
It is tempting to just try and play tunes using the right hand. Ok, have a quick twiddle for fun, but try and establish a link between both hands.
Later along the road you'll realise the way you play the melody is dictated by the chords and bellows direction hence the need to establish the link between the hands.
Good luck!
Q
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Winston Smith

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Re: Purchasing advice for a complete newbie
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2019, 09:06:21 AM »

I would echo Q's advice about getting both hands working together, especially if you're at all serious about playing melodeon.

After about four years, I know what I want my left hand to do, but getting it to do it consistently is another matter entirely! It doesn't really matter in my particular case, as I mainly play for my own amusement, or just amongst friends who don't seem to mind anyway. But, if you're intent on playing properly, then this is very important!

Good luck.
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Re: Purchasing advice for a complete newbie
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2019, 09:22:37 AM »

Fundamental advice from Quinton and Edward. It's essential to get both hands going together right from the start. I emphasise this in my beginners workshops. Progress may be slow right at the very beginning but for most people it soon drops into place and they never look back.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Purchasing advice for a complete newbie
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2019, 09:30:08 AM »

When you're playing or doing something new, practice doing it slowly.  How slowly? Slow enough for your brain and body to be aware of exactly what you are doing and learn how to do it. Playing at tempo can come once you are playing it right.

Beware of teaching yourself how to do things wrong, instead of how to do it right.
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Greg Smith
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Purchasing advice for a complete newbie
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2019, 09:34:02 AM »

One optimisation is to buy second hand from an independent dealer who'll also offer sensible advice. A good place to do that is a folk festival craft fair. 

You'll possibly move on to something more bespoke to your needs after a year or two, and this approach reduces 'depreciation' from a new box purchase.

The buy/sell here in the forum is essentially a free market, zero depreciation other than age. But it doesn't come with 'I'll fix anything in the  first 3 months' guarantee. So is more suited to someone with a little experience.

If you have a friend in that situtation and he can look over the box, melnet buy/sell is a good option.  Don't be too scared. As long as a box in not actually falling apart or bellows wheezing like an old resprarory cripple, most things can be fixed.  You do need most of the reeds in tune however. Reed fettling is a skill and costs ... about £10 a reed done as a batch job (?) NB   an out of tune box is not session friendly ;)

Suggest you update profile to say where you live if you want a tutor. eg: I am in Wirral. Festival teach-ins .. move you on. But it is regular tune a week practice that builds a solid and flexible technique.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 09:38:17 AM by Chris Ryall »
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Helena Handcart

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Re: Purchasing advice for a complete newbie
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2019, 09:38:05 AM »

It's essential to get both hands going together right from the start... Progress may be slow right at the very beginning but for most people it soon drops into place and they never look back.

This, absolutely this and I am so grateful for this advice early on.  Although I may have, as my friend Q eloquently puts it, had a twiddle playing with the right hand only I took care to stick to the plan and persevere with the prescribed bass exercises - I can remember the frustration still.

I remember fellow learners who were disparaging about teachers, books and structure and sure enough they picked up the melody part much quicker than me and could play tunes fluently much quicker. On the right hand  >:E.  I persevered with the 'both hands together' approach and cracked it... while other had to go back and essentially re-learn a lot of stuff in order to put the basses in later.

So in my view too the sooner you can get both hands working together the better. YMMV of course.
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Re: Purchasing advice for a complete newbie
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2019, 09:43:17 AM »

Agree too  The melodeon looks to be a right hand instrument, with some chords, but that's not the way it's played.

Most of the chords only only work in one direction. Most but not all right hand notes are in 2 directions, different rows.  So a 'tune' involves fitting those to a chord sequence that works. 

Sounds complex and is a bit of a brain ache as you start, but like driving it becomes automatic as you get to 'hear' what chords will work on a tune by comparison with ones you know already. 

.. which is where a tutor is such a help in getting you started  ;)
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Purchasing advice for a complete newbie
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2019, 10:35:22 AM »

Thank goodness for tutor books, as they get both hands going.
Yes it is brain ache and feels like a wall, but... the bricks will tumble and drop away when you've cracked it, and you will have made possibly the most important step you can make when learning.

Greg's right too, keep it slow, let the brain form a good link to the hands. It's all new, let the links establish themselves.
It all feels quite slow at first but as Theo once told me at the beginning when I first started, enjoy the process, give it time and it will all come.
cheers
Q
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Squeaky Pete

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Re: Purchasing advice for a complete newbie
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2019, 10:40:27 AM »

When you're learning or practicing, the important thing is that you get it right before moving on.
Don't try and get up to speed if you have a note wrong, hoping that you will eventually get it right. All that happens is you reinforce your mistake. Then your fingers learn to go wrong at that point.
Slow down until you can play it the way you want. It might be days or weeks before that phrase or chord sounds right, but now it will always be right.
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Re: Purchasing advice for a complete newbie
« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2019, 10:54:12 AM »

Squeaky Pete has said probably the most important point. There was a previous post that advised playing slowly, that didn’t clarify *how* slowly. As Pete says, play as slowly as you need to so you can play without mistakes.  Sometimes it’s even worth playing one note at a time with a pause between notes to decide which finger, and which bellows direction to use.  “Stop motion” playing as a teacher described it to me.
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Re: Purchasing advice for a complete newbie
« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2019, 11:05:31 AM »

Yep, I'm becoming more aware of accidentally embedding mistakes at the start of learning a new tune by continually making a mistake.
I think it was Squeezy John Spiers who said 'practice makes permanent....'. Including mistakes.
Q
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Re: Purchasing advice for a complete newbie
« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2019, 11:11:16 AM »

I think it was Squeezy John Spiers who said 'practice makes permanent....'. Including mistakes.

Yup, specially when you rush over the hard bits - often to be found in the first half of the B music.
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