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Author Topic: Buying advice for a beginner  (Read 5917 times)

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Lester

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Re: Buying advice for a beginner
« Reply #60 on: May 21, 2019, 06:46:14 PM »

I'm a little surprised the D/G melodeon never took off in the United States, where G and D seem to be the most common keys for American traditional tunes as well. Instead it seems like C/F and G/C are the most commonly found configurations for old Hohners in the US.


The D/G box only originates in the late 1950s so any 'old Hohners' are unlikely to be in D/G

John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: Buying advice for a beginner
« Reply #61 on: May 21, 2019, 06:53:00 PM »

At a guess German immigrants brought their C/F boxes with them, and the Scandinavians, their G/C boxes.

SJ
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Jesse Smith

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Re: Buying advice for a beginner
« Reply #62 on: May 21, 2019, 06:54:51 PM »

The D/G box only originates in the late 1950s so any 'old Hohners' are unlikely to be in D/G

Yes, true enough, so I guess the difference is that the US never had a melodeon-based folk revival in the '50s and onwards like the UK did. Maybe my underlying reaction is that it's odd that the D/G took so long to be developed when it is such a natural setup for traditional music, both in the British Isles and in the US.
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george garside

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Re: Buying advice for a beginner
« Reply #63 on: May 21, 2019, 08:04:06 PM »

I missed being able to cross between the rows to get notes in the same key

Puzzled by this. BC players play across the rows all the time.

Of course they do, I'm just referring to the difficulties of being a DG player playing a BC box and having to stick to one row as any row crossing I know doesn't work in the same way.

speaking as a DG and BC player the only common factor between the two is that there are 2 notes per button.  On a DG etc box row crossing is an option to either get better bass harmony or to sometimes ease tricky bits of fingering. to cross row or not to cross row is a choice  and both methods have there adherents and of course there are those who do a bit of both!

ON the other hand the semitone boxes unless being played in the keys of the rows eg B and C  use  different fingering scales for different keys  so these relativelyeasy scales need to be learned and practiced until they become second nature   - then it isn't thought of in terms of row crossing but just  as the way the instrument is played.  The only options which are very useful are that B and E are available on the push and pull  and the choice of which to use depends very much on the tune being played  i.e. to help with bellows control  and or to ease tricky bits of fingering.

While both systems look the same  i.e. 2 row button accordions/melodeons  but as far as playing is concerned they are best treated as two different but similar instruments .  A DG player is part way to being a BC player and vice versa simply because they share the 2 notes per button .

That's how I see it - others may disagree?

george
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Stiamh

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Re: Buying advice for a beginner
« Reply #64 on: May 21, 2019, 09:22:02 PM »

A DG player is part way to being a BC player and vice versa simply because they share the 2 notes per button. That's how I see it - others may disagree?

I'd just point out that you forgot to mention that a BC player is part way to being a BCC# player.
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george garside

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Re: Buying advice for a beginner
« Reply #65 on: May 21, 2019, 09:37:26 PM »

indeed! and I also forgot to mention that the fingering on a BCC# is much easier than on a BC or CC#

george ;)
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Peadar

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Re: Buying advice for a beginner
« Reply #66 on: May 21, 2019, 11:37:52 PM »

indeed! and I also forgot to mention that the fingering on a BCC# is much easier than on a BC or CC#

george ;)

Too many buttons >:E
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Anahata

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Re: Buying advice for a beginner
« Reply #67 on: May 22, 2019, 08:21:37 AM »

Too many buttons, or lots of useful choices?
IME the problem with B/C/C# is that the whole box is just too heavy.
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george garside

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Re: Buying advice for a beginner
« Reply #68 on: May 22, 2019, 09:22:26 AM »

The weight of a BCC# is not  necessarily the handicap that many think it is, particularly if thinking in terms of the hohner trichord or 48 (12x4) serenellini'  Agreed lthe  Shand morino is heavy but as one with all the age related rheumatism etc etc I don't find the 96 bass hohner gaelic particuolarly heavy to play seated or standing for reasonable periods of thime.

Its more a question of the total physical effort required  and  the BCC sharp has two points in its favour when compared with smaller lighter 2 row boxes.

1. far less bellows movement is required due to lthe larger volume of air therein.

2.  The 'ins and outs' are reduced  because of the number of reversals - 2 of everything exept GDA

having said that I also very much enjoy playing a lilly and  hohner pokerwork DG and a 2 row BC double ray.

george
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richard.fleming

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Re: Buying advice for a beginner
« Reply #69 on: May 22, 2019, 09:38:04 AM »

The D/G box ...
 is such a natural setup for traditional music, both in the British Isles and in the US.

Not everyone would agree with this, of course..
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Old Paolo Sopranis in C#/D and D/D#

Winston Smith

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Re: Buying advice for a beginner
« Reply #70 on: May 22, 2019, 09:48:32 AM »

"Not everyone would agree with this, of course.."

Richard, I really admire your persistence in promoting your beloved B/C (or half-step, anyway) system. Bravo!
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george garside

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Re: Buying advice for a beginner
« Reply #71 on: May 22, 2019, 11:41:26 AM »

The D/G box ...
 is such a natural setup for traditional music, both in the British Isles and in the US.

Not everyone would agree with this, of course..

I agree!  and use a dg when playing for 'english' ceilidhs  and also for sessions  as playing on a BC in ,say, E would result in  dirty looks from everybody.       But I also enjoy  the chromatic ability of the semitone boxes  , particularly the 3 row veriety  and  play tunes in other keys than as writ. eg  I find Maggie sounds great played in E  and on the 3 row you can do a bit of F-ing using exactly the same fingering ;D

george
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richard.fleming

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Re: Buying advice for a beginner
« Reply #72 on: May 22, 2019, 01:08:36 PM »

"Not everyone would agree with this, of course.."

Richard, I really admire your persistence in promoting your beloved B/C (or half-step, anyway) system. Bravo!
Maybe I should beg or borrow a DG box and give it a good go, Winston? It's always good to see if one's views turn out to be prejudices, isn't it?
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george garside

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Re: Buying advice for a beginner
« Reply #73 on: May 22, 2019, 01:55:36 PM »

neither system is 'best'  and I would not want to give up either.   This is why the two boxes I would not sell  are my dg pokerwork and my BC double ray both of which  I will hopefully still be able to play when I am very old and knackered.     Interestingly Sir Jimmy Shand    played  a hohner  ?CC# Erica when he was 90 ish.  Iit was was souped up by his son Jimmy jnr with morino reeds and pallets!  There is a you tube of it  - jimmy shand nelodeon solo.

george

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baz parkes

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Re: Buying advice for a beginner
« Reply #74 on: May 22, 2019, 02:03:37 PM »

indeed! and I also forgot to mention that the fingering on a BCC# is much easier than on a BC or CC#

george ;)

Too many buttons >:E

Frankly, Scarlett, more than 10 is just showing off >:E >:E
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Winston Smith

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Re: Buying advice for a beginner
« Reply #75 on: May 22, 2019, 03:11:27 PM »

"Maybe I should beg or borrow a DG box and give it a good go, Winston? It's always good to see if one's views turn out to be prejudices, isn't it?"

With me, views and prejudices are often interchangeable!

However, I keep on converting boxes to D/G (as that's what I need) and then don't like the sound, although that could (and probably does) have to do with my amateurish workmanship as much as the screechy notes as I travel up the keyboard. The only one I did like the sound of was an old Hohner which ended up being octave tuned, but it had to go as I was short of readies!
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george garside

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Re: Buying advice for a beginner
« Reply #76 on: May 22, 2019, 04:26:15 PM »

indeed! and I also forgot to mention that the fingering on a BCC# is much easier than on a BC or CC#

george ;)

Too many buttons >:E

  playing a good tune on a one row 10 button  box   with the necessary faking etc  is definitely showing off!

george >:E ;)

Frankly, Scarlett, more than 10 is just showing off >:E >:E
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