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Author Topic: Broken reeds  (Read 1248 times)

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penn

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Broken reeds
« on: January 16, 2019, 07:25:10 PM »

I keep breaking reeds.

It’s a Dino Music Room / Oakwood Super III, unusually it’s MMM, and I’ve had it about four years or so.
About 3 months ago I had it fettled, retuned, and at that time it needed two reeds replacing that had both cracked. One was obviously out of tune, the other I’d never noticed.
I’d also cracked one earlier within 6 months of buying it and the Music Room fixed it under warranty. Yesterday I broke a fourth one - the pitch has dropped about a tone.
I’ve also broken a reed on an old Hohner Club box about 5 years ago.
I’m wondering if I pump the box too violently, or if the reeds in the Dino are particularly fragile, or if this is just bad luck? Is it unusual to break reeds with this regularity?

I believe the reeds are Artigiana - are they known to be delicate?


Thanks
Gren
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Theo

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Re: Broken reeds
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2019, 07:53:17 PM »

Italian reeds in general are much less prone to breaking than Hohner reeds.  I have a box with a couple of kg of broken reeds.  Probably 5% of them are Italian, the rest mostly Hohner.
Could be just bad luck, or purhaps it is your playing style. Can you post a video of yourself playing?
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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penn

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Re: Broken reeds
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2019, 08:14:37 PM »

Thanks Theo. I’ve done a few totms but not for a few months. Here’s my most recent (before the recent retuning, which incidentally has made some improvement to the sound - it’s wetter now) and I think I’m playing fairly stridently in this, particularly the B.
https://youtu.be/VdowL63V9xI
Gren
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Andrew Kennedy

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Re: Broken reeds
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2019, 09:36:53 PM »

I have a Castagnari Lilly which I bought new just over 30 years ago, and I'm told that I have a distinctively vigorous (or something) style when playing for dancing. The bellows finally gave out last summer, but all the reeds are original. It's a fantastic box.
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rees

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Re: Broken reeds
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2019, 10:23:10 PM »

Penn, re. the video. Nothing particularly violent about your playing, a steady Morris style.
As Theo says, it is unusual to break Italian reeds. I tend to think it's bad luck or possibly a bad batch of steel (even more unusual).
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Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
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penn

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Re: Broken reeds
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2019, 11:36:01 PM »

Thank you chaps, it seems as if melnet has worked its magic again. The latest broken reed is now unbroken.

I was pulling it to try and see if the pitch was changing and suddenly it fixed itself. The box now has a light swing on two reeds, and a heavier wash with the third in, and the problem was there with the two reeds. So I assumed that the cracked reed must have broken off - it is pretty dry on that setting and it’s quite a high reed, so fairly hard to determine much beat. So actually in that state I wasn’t going to notice a missing reed - I play mostly on three reeds (and why wouldn’t you eh? Paid for ‘em). But I thought I’d better open it up to remove any bits of reed floating about inside. The pair of dry reeds are on one block, I removed it, and all reeds were intact in that area. (Pull is always on the inside isn’t it?)
So....magic or what? Maybe a sticky valve or something like that?
Anyway, thanks for the comments.
Gren
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Broken reeds
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2019, 07:55:47 AM »

You said in your initial post that the pitch of the problem note had dropped by a tone.
You are correct that the pull reeds are on the underneath side of the reed plate. Now that you think there are no broken reeds after all, the question is why it did drop in pitch so noticably.

The problem could indeed be a stuck valve which has now freed itself. Or more insidiously, loose wax around one of the reed plates which can also cause a drop in pitch That is harder to spot and not always visible by eye. Sometimes loose wax can temporarily re-bed itself and all seems well for a while until it works loose again.

If the problem recurrs, the valves and wax are things to check. It is worth checking the inside valve is not fouling on the sides of the reed chamber. With the reed block removed, look carefully through the vent while gently poking a cocktail stick in to test whether the valve is not catching on the sides or the end of the reed chamber. if it is, then remove the reed plate, and replace the valve perhaps trimming the end or shifting it fractionally further away from the chamber walls/end. It might also be worth checking the chamber walls or ends do not have any rough bits. If the valve is catching on the end of the reed chamber, and you can't trim the valve any further, you may need to very carefully file or shave a thin sliver of wood off the end of the reed chamber. But that should really be a last resort.

Replacing the inside valve and/or enlarging the reed chamber will mean removing the reed plate from the wax. Rewaxing again afterwards should also cure the potentially loose wax too.
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Rog

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Re: Broken reeds
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2019, 08:08:53 AM »

I once had a customer who kept breaking reeds..because he was competing to be heard with other musicians. I advised a decent mic/pickup and I think that solved the problem.

MarioP

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Re: Broken reeds
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2019, 12:52:11 PM »

Life spam also influences they are only meant to vibrate for certain amount of times.. ... i find myself breaking those reeds on keys i play the most for song i like the most. Also the higher notes break faster than the lower notes reeds i guess that would go back to the life spam again and how old the reeds are... dont expect reeds from the 50s last you a life time 😆

Anyways enjoy it its part of the gig too if you play live people wont even notice u broke one unless its one of us attending the gig 🥳
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Hohner Corso A/D x2, G/C, Corona II A/D/G from the 60s.
Hohner Pre Corona II BsEsAs,Club IV C/F Pre-War, Liliput C/F, Mignon I (G) Piano from the 30s, Kromatica III from the 60s harmonica. Hohner Kids I. Pearl Forum series 80s, Zildjian, Sabían, Wuhan cymbals. Ludwig snare 70s.

Dave Praties

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Re: Broken reeds
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2019, 02:44:40 PM »

Love the idea of "life spam" having an influence on reed longevity, but would that the the spam you get on your computer, or the king that comes in a tin?
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Castagnari Mory D/G.  Saltarelle Bouebe D/G. Hohner Club 2 C/F. Bachenbulach Bb/Eb. Matzini C/F. Some of them even work.

Dave Praties

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Re: Broken reeds
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2019, 02:48:31 PM »

Oops, I mean of course, the "kind" that comes in a tin!
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Castagnari Mory D/G.  Saltarelle Bouebe D/G. Hohner Club 2 C/F. Bachenbulach Bb/Eb. Matzini C/F. Some of them even work.

penn

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Re: Broken reeds
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2019, 05:41:26 PM »

Thanks Steve... hasn’t thought of the wax angle. Am I right in saying that a pull reed is more likely to be affected by the wax being cracked or loose? Airflow on a push would be more likely to push the plate back onto the block?
Anyway, thanks I’ll see how things progress, and may pop the lid and have another gentle poke.

Roger... thanks, but in sessions I tend to try to play as quietly as possible so that no one can hear the terrible random notes I’m playing  (:)

Mario yes, interestingly, after a day of being grumpy and sad about the “broken” really reed I picked up the box and only found one other tune I play regularly that used the bad note. However, I’d been playing that note frantically over the past month, as I’m trying to complete Paddy Carey before the end of the month.
Dave - I have a tin of Life Spam on order from Amazon, shall report back on its effectiveness.
Gren
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Broken reeds
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2019, 06:34:11 PM »

Thanks Steve... hasn’t thought of the wax angle. Am I right in saying that a pull reed is more likely to be affected by the wax being cracked or loose? Airflow on a push would be more likely to push the plate back onto the block?

Yes, that's correct.

It might be worth (a) examining the wax around the suspect reed plate with a good magnifying lens and (b) just gently trying to ease the reed plate off the wax by carefully using a flat screw driver blade or similar to press upwards on the inside rivet head. If the wax is is at all loose or cracked, the reed plate should move easily.

The remedy is simply to remelt the wax with a hot knife blade or soldering iron tip (don't let it get too hot so that the wax smokes and burns). If there is sufficient wax around the reed plate you should be OK, but if the wax looks at all skimped or deficient - say less than a third of the thickness of the reed plate - run a bit more reed wax around the plate. Charlie Marshall can supply sticks of wax.
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MarioP

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Re: Broken reeds
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2019, 11:06:57 PM »

Life Span 🤣
Missed my yrain stop typing life spam 🥴

I had my corona iii or rey del valenato hohner shipped from neatherlands and i had to re adjust the reeds as they described some had shifted and were making an awful buzz all great after specially the inner row....
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Hohner Corso A/D x2, G/C, Corona II A/D/G from the 60s.
Hohner Pre Corona II BsEsAs,Club IV C/F Pre-War, Liliput C/F, Mignon I (G) Piano from the 30s, Kromatica III from the 60s harmonica. Hohner Kids I. Pearl Forum series 80s, Zildjian, Sabían, Wuhan cymbals. Ludwig snare 70s.
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