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Author Topic: New Tool and Method for Improving Harmonica Reed Response  (Read 2781 times)

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BeePee

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New Tool and Method for Improving Harmonica Reed Response
« on: January 17, 2019, 09:21:59 AM »

Hello Brothers and Sisters of the Free Reed...

Here's a nifty new process I'm applying to my harmonica reeds. It's easy, quick, and effective at reducing air loss at the reed base - thus improving response. I've tried it on a couple of accordion reed blocks and it works similarly. It's nondestructive and reversible, so why not some if you more techie types give it a try and see what you think? I'm interested to hear!

https://youtu.be/eQP6tZRXbTU

Brendan Power
« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 04:49:19 PM by BeePee »
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Microbot

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Re: New Tool and Method for Improving Harmonica Reed Response
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2019, 10:14:24 AM »

...now that HAS to be explored!!

An excellent video with helpful detail on the process.

Many thanks for that Brendan!
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Rog

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Re: New Tool and Method for Improving Harmonica Reed Response
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2019, 02:27:41 PM »

Very interesting. Does embossing work with aluminium plates? The examples I watched showed how to do it on brass plates.
Also, I wonder how it works if the nail varnish is run right around the slot (not just the bass)...giving a close tolerance all around and maybe eliminating the need for embossing.

Theo

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Re: New Tool and Method for Improving Harmonica Reed Response
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2019, 02:34:08 PM »

I’ve tried embossing on aluminium plates.  It found it sort of works on soft aluminium that you find on lower grade reeds, but on better reeds with hard alloy plates I wasn’t able to make much impression on the metal. Perhaps I was using the wrong tool.
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BeePee

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Re: New Tool and Method for Improving Harmonica Reed Response
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2019, 04:01:41 PM »

I've made a prototype harmonica with cheap Chinese aluminium accordion reedplates.Their reed/slot tolerances were not good, so I closed them up with embossing. It made quite a difference.

The idea was to create loud harmonicas for pub sessions. Still a work in progress, but here's a quick demo:

https://youtu.be/jejsiCD172E

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Gena Crisman

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Re: New Tool and Method for Improving Harmonica Reed Response
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2019, 04:45:02 PM »

Thank you for doing this kind of experimentation.

I wonder how effective this kind of change is on instruments which have valves on all their reeds - I think typically these are also secured about 1/3rd of the way up, albeit on the other side of the slot. I also wonder how this could interact with the highest pitch reeds in our instruments, which typically we have set up without any valves, and if there are any benefits to the interaction.
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BeePee

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Re: New Tool and Method for Improving Harmonica Reed Response
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2019, 04:48:23 PM »

Re. Using the nail art pen all around the reed: this doesn't work with small flexible harmonica reeds, because the reed dips under the tip of the tool.

Possibly the larger steel accordion-type reeds might have enough stiffness to resist that. But you'd need to stabilise them somehow whilst doing the work, could be tricky.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 05:42:20 PM by BeePee »
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BeePee

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Re: New Tool and Method for Improving Harmonica Reed Response
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2019, 05:52:27 PM »

Gena: fully valved free reed instruments (like most bellows operated ones and chromatic harmonicas) only have one reed in the chamber sounding whilst the valve closes over the other's slot. Air loss is proportionally much less than on unvalved diatonic harmonicas, which have air escaping through both the sounding reed and the slot of the reed of opposite breath.

I think it's still worth doing slot embossing etc on valved reeds, but you won't get such a big improvement as if both reeds are unvalved.

I guess the top end reeds on melodeons could benefit, though often the reason high reeds are left unvalved is deliberately to allow some leakage, to avoid pitch problems from the dreaded Helmholtz Resonance Coupling phenomenon. But that's another story...
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: New Tool and Method for Improving Harmonica Reed Response
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2019, 06:09:17 PM »

My problem is with a valved Hohner Chromonica, where the valves 'pop', which causes a slight delay in response.


SJ
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Re: New Tool and Method for Improving Harmonica Reed Response
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2019, 06:41:09 PM »

My problem is with a valved Hohner Chromonica, where the valves 'pop', which causes a slight delay in response.
Check the valves are not curled or fouling on something. Replacing the suspect valves with new ones usually cures the problem.
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: New Tool and Method for Improving Harmonica Reed Response
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2019, 09:21:17 PM »

They're OK Steve, it's the moisture from playing makes them stick to the plates, which slows the response fractionally. I will probably end up taking them off

SJ
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bellowpin

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Re: New Tool and Method for Improving Harmonica Reed Response
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2019, 09:54:25 PM »

...now that HAS to be explor

Many thanks for that Brendan!
   
  I can see that making the standard reed plate as simple as possible ,the reed is parallel to the plate.  an improvement would be to recess the rivet end slightly into the plate. then only the free end of the reed is above the slot in the plate .  this is in effect what we have with this nail varnish trick.  we are building up the plate side at the rivet end.
 what are the benefits, ? is it worth the effort ?  a new area to explore ..
   
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BeePee

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Re: New Tool and Method for Improving Harmonica Reed Response
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2019, 07:39:56 AM »

Re. Popping valves on your chromatic harmonica: removing the valves is not necessary or desirable, as you will lose their helpful effect.

The way to stop them sticking momentarily due to moisture on the reedplate is to reduce their footprint around the slot, particularly at the tip, so the effect of capillary attraction is minimised.

Trim the end of the valve almost flush with the end of the slot, and taper it by trimming off the corners on the tip. That should do the trick. Warming up the instrument before playing will also help by reducing condensation of your breath on cold reedplates.
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playandteach

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Re: New Tool and Method for Improving Harmonica Reed Response
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2019, 04:59:02 PM »

I've been trying to be more subtle in my left hand, but the reeds don't respond evenly, sometimes just one of the chord reeds, then the other kicks in at higher volume (not always the higher reed first).
They also take much more air than the right hand reeds to get going. Is this worth trying on bass and chord reeds? (that's the nail varnish, I didn't actually find out what embossing was from the video, so I'll have to look on youtube for that bit). Very frustrated with reed response.
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Winston Smith

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Re: New Tool and Method for Improving Harmonica Reed Response
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2021, 08:57:58 AM »

Did anyone ever really give this a try on our instruments? I'm currently trying to get some lower of the octave bass reads to start at the same time as their higher octave mates. It's a b****r!
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: New Tool and Method for Improving Harmonica Reed Response
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2021, 02:49:35 PM »

I've been trying to be more subtle in my left hand, but the reeds don't respond evenly, sometimes just one of the chord reeds, then the other kicks in at higher volume (not always the higher reed first).
They also take much more air than the right hand reeds to get going. ....  Very frustrated with reed response.
I would advise NOT to mess about with nail varnish or burnishing the reed plate slot edge to create a burr (that's what embossing entails for harmonica reeds).

To get all your bass reeds sounding simultaneously requires a combination of (a) all the valves working properly and (b) the reed tip gaps set to their optimum.

In the case of (a), if the box hasn't been fettled for a while, the valves could be curling or otherwise not seating flat. Either of these conditions mean that there is a slight delay before the valve closes under the bellows air pressure, which in turn delays the reed starting to sound properly. New valves needed...

For (b), a reed tip gap set too high can result in a delayed and breathy response; also a somewhat louder sound. If the reed tip gap is too narrow, the reed may 'choke off' and not speak at all. Or - if the gap is not quite as narrow to cause choking, yet still narrower than optimum, the reed may still have a slightly delayed start, but with a weak and variable sound with accompanying variation of pitch as the bellows air pressure changes.

Getting the reed tip gap set just right is a job requiring care, experience, and patience, but ultimately can transform the response of the instrument. But there is no point in attempting to adjust the reed tip unless all the valves are working properly first.

You need to visit a good fettler. (I believe there is one who resides not too far from you...(:))
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Steve
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playandteach

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Re: New Tool and Method for Improving Harmonica Reed Response
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2021, 07:39:33 PM »

There is indeed Steve, but the first job I'll be taking to him will be the new box. For anyone that knows me, when I say reed response is not entirely even, that is a tall ask. But for now focused on the new Serafini, lightening the springs etc.
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: New Tool and Method for Improving Harmonica Reed Response
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2021, 12:23:09 AM »

There is indeed Steve, but the first job I'll be taking to him will be the new box. For anyone that knows me, when I say reed response is not entirely even, that is a tall ask. But for now focused on the new Serafini, lightening the springs etc.
Ah - I've just realised that I responded to a post of yours which was getting on for 2 years old. I thought it was the new Serafini you had reed response issues with. Hope you can get both instruments sorted.
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Steve
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playandteach

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Re: New Tool and Method for Improving Harmonica Reed Response
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2021, 08:08:49 AM »

They're already nice to play. But just looking to get them ideal. Hope you're keeping well in these times.
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