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Author Topic: Bass Side Drop  (Read 2658 times)

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Spikey

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Bass Side Drop
« on: January 20, 2019, 02:53:49 AM »

Sorry if this has been covered before - I did a search but may not have put in the right words.

I have noticed that I am letting the bass side drop more and more as I play - so that the bellows are opening sort of diagonally downwards.  Building up my arm strength doesn't seem to have helped much... I think it is more of a habit that I have got into, rather than a weight issue.

Has anyone else managed to correct this in their playing?  I suspect it may require a lot of work  :-\
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Graham Spencer

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Re: Bass Side Drop
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2019, 07:14:54 AM »

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that PA players are often taught to operate their bellows in a fan-like manner, opening them more at the top than at the bottom. There is no standard method for the melodeon, so what you're describing may not be an issue to be "corrected" as there's no "correct" way of doing it.  Maybe that's not what you're experiencing, though?

Graham
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Bass Side Drop
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2019, 07:42:29 AM »

I have noticed that I am letting the bass side drop more and more as I play - so that the bellows are opening sort of diagonally downwards. ...

In my melodeon teaching, I always say that there are no rules. Everyone is shaped and built differently, and what works for one person may not work for another, and vice versa. Generally, if something works for you, and you can play successfully and efficiently, then by all means use it.

On the specific point of bass end droop, some people find that playing with a droop helps keep their left hand in its correct position, whereas if playing with the bellows horizontal, their hand tends to slide upwards in the wrist strap.

Whatever works for you is just fine.

BTW - look at my avatar photo!
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Bass Side Drop
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2019, 08:22:51 AM »

If you feel the box is drooping too much, perhaps you could try adjusting the straps?
By saying that I've just assumed you've used two straps which might well be wrong  ::)
The point being, strap(s) affect the position of the box on the body so it night be worth playing with the box position.
As Steve says, if it works for you then it's ok.
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Bass Side Drop
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2019, 08:51:48 AM »

One other thought, just be sure that in your position ensure your wrists aren't bent at a great angle.
The reason I'm saying that is a friend and accomplished player has his box 'well drooped' and he has it quite low down his body. A while ago he experienced numbness in his bass wrist as he played with it in a quite bent position.
It seems to have resolved itself luckily, but I would introduce a caveat: whatever works for you so long as it doesn't create an extreme wrist position.
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

richard.fleming

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Re: Bass Side Drop
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2019, 10:31:39 AM »

The best players -this is an observation, not a rule - tend not to open the bellows very far and not to move them in and out very much. So droop doesn't come into it. You may say this is impossible, and of course on some tunes it can be difficult, but it is a useful ambition.
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george garside

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Re: Bass Side Drop
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2019, 10:33:20 AM »

whilst i agree that there is no single 'right way. of attaching  the box to the person  what works best for me is two shouder straps adjusted so the body of the treble end is roughly under the chin  and the top of the bass end a stretched handswidth below the chin when looking straight ahead.  This basiscally entails having the right strap slightly longer than the left .  I use this set up on all my boxes whether standing or seated  and would recommend it particularly for those eg morris musicians who play standing for much of the time.  That is not to say that one strap can't be used and indeed often is but tome it doesn't look comfortable  and fine control of the bellows must be quite difficult.

As to ? unwanted bellows  droop  the tighter the bellows are played the more control the player has particularly when a series of rapid ins and outs are required.  Being a lazy bugger I  never open the bellows beyond the minimum needed  and is they necessarily go far out for a particular part of a particular tune I return them as quickly as possible to  bwteen 3 and 12 inches open which does for most things.   


Overly heavy use of the bass can contribute to 'droop'  as  heavy (?turgid) bass  uses a massive amount of air relative to that used on the treble end to play the tune.



playing seated with one strap and box resting onleft knee  does to some degree limit the amount of bellows stretch unless the player has a very long left arm!

but each to his/her own!

george
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george garside

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Re: Bass Side Drop
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2019, 10:35:11 AM »

Richard just beat me to it and put it much more succinctly!

george ;)
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Bass Side Drop
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2019, 11:46:14 AM »

Yes, agree with Richard and George on both points.
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Spikey

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Re: Bass Side Drop
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2019, 05:45:07 AM »

Thank you, not what I was expecting and very useful.

I have been getting some 'clatter' from the bellows sometimes, I think from the metal corners (?), and then when I noticed how much lower I dropped the bass side had thought maybe this was contributing.  Have tried various different strap configurations, but seem to always come back to two as tight as I can get them giving me the most control.

But I think you are right, I do need to aim to try not to open the bellows as much... at least something to aspire to in the long term anyway (:).

I did notice your avatar Steve, but yours looks a lot better and more controlled ;D and the bellows are still 'straight' relative to each side, even if the whole box is angled downwards.  My drop is not on an angle - the bellows form a sort of S curve downwards...

I think really I am looking for reasons for less than brilliant playing, when I just need to get on and play more and stop making excuses.  Feel a bit of deja vu typing that ::)

Thank you all (:)
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george garside

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Re: Bass Side Drop
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2019, 10:49:00 AM »

developing tight bellows control can sometimes be helped by  keeping a eye on where they are !   So doing will  tell the brain when it is time to reverse direction - or something  like that!

george
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Bass Side Drop
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2019, 11:42:34 AM »

Spikey, I found when starting up that the position of the box really did affect my playing.
Now I feel I've settled on a position that is comfortable and allows me to control it properly. I no longer feel the bass end is slipping away from me, the keyboard isn't right under my chin, or around my waist. Everything is comfortably within reach of my hands.
Along the way I've had times when I've decided I need to adjust everything, and probably 're-adjusted' it back to the same position as before I messed with it  ::)
Take your time, have a constructive play with the straps and position and see of that helps you. It can have a remarkable effect on your playing if you're not fighting the box to keep it where you want it.
At the same time the previous comments about bellows control are also important.
Good luck!
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Alan Pittwood

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Re: Bass Side Drop
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2019, 12:45:27 PM »

Spikey, thanks for the second post. 

These days I always use two straps when standing to play - mostly outdoors for Morris - but change to one lengthened strap when seated in a session - when the instrument is further supported on my left thigh.  I did use only one strap when playing outdoors but that was abandoned some time ago even for Erica-sized instruments.

I think that an important aspect of bellows control is the quick and careful use of the air button.   When I was learning, on a number of 1960s junk-shop German one-row melodeons, it was imperative to conserve air and air pressure for every tune.  'Clattery' bellows suggests the need to deliberately close them with the air button and play 'tighter'.
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george garside

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Re: Bass Side Drop
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2019, 01:31:04 PM »

the way the bass is used/played  can have a huge effect on bellows control .


over heavy um pa, um pa rhythm  uses vast amounts of air whereas a light rhythmic tap  uses much less and not only sounds better but gives dancers some 'lift'


on occasion , where part of a tune is ever going inwards ( or outwards)  a long bass note (using bass and chord together)    when there is a short change of bellows direction can , along with the air button  put the bellows back where you want them


similarly there can be times when just leaving off the bass for a bar (ish) can  prevent running out of air or stop unwanted bellows travel. Used jusiciously this can even enhance a tune by reducing monotony!


Leaving bass off completely where rapid ins and outs are required can not only save air but also stop a tune sounding 'mushy' and is a technique I use eg for the fast run down in Harvest HOme played on the row.

etc etc etc


The bellows is the very soul of the box rather than a bloody great air pump  and is in some ways to thebox player hat the bow is to the fiddler. 

george     
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Bass Side Drop
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2019, 01:40:58 PM »

As ever, George hits the nail on the head. The bellows are just so important.
The thing that I do is to limit my in and out of the bellows by playing across the rows. Then a series of notes might be playable in one direction by going to the other row. This reduces the bellows movement into one direction rather than back and forth.
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Lester

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Re: Bass Side Drop
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2019, 01:47:19 PM »

As ever, George hits the nail on the head. The bellows are just so important.
The thing that I do is to limit my in and out of the bellows by playing across the rows. Then a series of notes might be playable in one direction by going to the other row. This reduces the bellows movement into one direction rather than back and forth.
Q
And in some ways defeats the natural drive of the push/pull system.
Signed an inveterate single strap up and down the row player.

Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Bass Side Drop
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2019, 02:00:43 PM »

Possibly, but everything in reason.
It saves madly thrashing backwards and forwards!
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Lester

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Re: Bass Side Drop
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2019, 02:13:40 PM »


Possibly, but everything in reason.
It saves madly thrashing backwards and forwards!
Q

If you are 'It saves madly thrashing backwards and forwards!' you are doing it wrong, unless you are playing this

Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Bass Side Drop
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2019, 02:45:05 PM »

Well, I've seen players with that action, not *necessarily* playing that tune.
If you know what I mean  >:E
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Graham Spencer

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Re: Bass Side Drop
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2019, 04:11:18 PM »

FWIW, I was advised many years ago (by a PA player) to try not to open the bellows to more than one third of their total length. I have tried to follow this advice, and while I do still occasionally come unstuck, the open bellows length in my avatar is pretty much my usual limit.  Not only does it make bellows control easier, it reduces wear & tear.

Graham
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Squeezing in the Cyprus sunshine
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