Topic: Grey Paolos (Read 6571 times)

Reedman · « **on:** September 04, 2009, 07:20:01 PM »

Hi Guys,
Can anyone tell me if grey Paolo Sopranis come up often on e-bay? Like are we talking one a year or one every five years?? I was told it might be a good place to see one but no luck

WOuld I be better off looking somewhere else??

Bananayogi · « **Reply #1 on:** September 04, 2009, 07:37:34 PM »

Try this thread:

http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,1523.0.html

Mostly it is (pictures of) the same box! Be very careful...

Lars · « **Reply #2 on:** September 05, 2009, 09:57:52 AM »

Reedman · « **Reply #3 on:** September 05, 2009, 01:12:30 PM »

Thanks for the advice friends, Wow.. 8000! That box must have been in good condition. Did you play it or see it be any chance? A friend of mine was at that festival and said it was great. Where was the guy that sold the box from, Ireland?

Bocsa · « **Reply #4 on:** September 05, 2009, 01:45:18 PM »

Lars · « **Reply #5 on:** September 05, 2009, 03:34:15 PM »

Quote from: Reedman on September 05, 2009, 01:12:30 PM

Thanks for the advice friends, Wow.. 8000! That box must have been in good condition. Did you play it or see it be any chance? A friend of mine was at that festival and said it was great. Where was the guy that sold the box from, Ireland?

Nope, I didn't see it, I just had a pint with the fellow and he told me. Irishman and musician, but not a box-player. It was a dark grey 3 voice with black bellow frames (Tony Mac Mahon plays this model), which is a very nice model indeed.

Quote from: liammcg on September 05, 2009, 01:45:18 PM

I've only ever heard of ONE that sold for 10.000 euros - it was a "bucktooth coupler" 4 voice dark grey, same as what Billy McComiskey plays.

It's a shame with these prices - it makes it close to impossible for musicians to afford one...

Andrel · « **Reply #6 on:** September 05, 2009, 04:00:06 PM »

What is so special about those boxes that they cannot be replicated ? The design, the reeds, sound projection or what ? They're revered like Stradivarius violins. Do they get better with age like wine ? A challenge for box designers, I guess...

Lars · « **Reply #7 on:** September 05, 2009, 04:26:38 PM »

They just have a very special sound - what I would describe as close to the ultimate sound.

It has been replicated, the Jubilee model, but it's just not the same, though the sound is remarkably close to that of the original.

Andrel · « **Reply #8 on:** September 05, 2009, 04:51:20 PM »

I do agree that the sound is exceptional, Lars, but it owes its quality to identifiable features, that's what I am getting at. Also, my favourite players on the grey Paolo are Joe Cooley, of course, Tony McMahon (playing Joe's old box) and Mick Mulcahy, all three playing in D/D#. I find that Eb sound simply irresistible. Somehow, I don't get as much enjoyment from players using grey Paolos with different tunings, however talented they may be.

mikesamwild · « **Reply #9 on:** September 05, 2009, 05:28:27 PM »

I've got a two voice black Erica in D/D sharp which is a nice poor man's box! I agree about the key which is nice and bright

boxlad · « **Reply #10 on:** September 06, 2009, 12:32:14 PM »

Quote

I do agree that the sound is exceptional, Lars, but it owes its quality to identifiable features, that's what I am getting at. Also, my favourite players on the grey Paolo are Joe Cooley, of course, Tony McMahon (playing Joe's old box) and Mick Mulcahy, all three playing in D/D#. I find that Eb sound simply irresistible. Somehow, I don't get as much enjoyment from players using grey Paolos with different tunings, however talented they may be.

I've played many dark grey and light grey boxes and there is a big difference between the sound of them both. McMahon's box is a dark grey whereas Mick Mulcahy's box is the later light grey with the celluloid grille. He took that grille off though and had a metal one made and fitted to it. Perhaps to make it look more like the more desirable dark grey box or one of the silver grey boxes..

triskel · « **Reply #11 on:** September 07, 2009, 01:30:34 AM »

Quote from: Andrel on September 05, 2009, 04:51:20 PM

... my favourite players on the grey Paolo are Joe Cooley, of course, Tony McMahon (playing Joe's old box) and Mick Mulcahy, all playing in D/D#. I find that Eb sound simply irresistible. Somehow, I don't get as much enjoyment from players using grey Paolos with different tunings, however talented they may be.

Though, you know, almost all Joe Cooley's recordings were made on the red 3-voice Paolo Soprani he's pictured with (in San Francisco, in 1969) below:

He's playing the same box in the 1973 film clip too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGzJdoMeoQY

Andrel · « **Reply #12 on:** September 07, 2009, 01:38:49 AM »

Ha! That's news to me. I've always associated Joe Cooley with the grey box. Thanks for the info,Stephen. Great sound anyway, and the key he played in has something to do with it. I never get tired of listening to "The Bucks" by Cooley. I'm sure he would have sounded great on a Rossetti

Lars · « **Reply #13 on:** September 07, 2009, 06:11:05 PM »

- and a classic would be the old San Fransisco audio recordings of Joe (recorded around 1971) where he's playing in D (outside row) while happily tooting away on the Eb bass

Bocsa · « **Reply #14 on:** September 07, 2009, 06:35:58 PM »

Quote from: Lars on September 07, 2009, 06:11:05 PM

- and a classic would be the old San Fransisco audio recordings of Joe (recorded around 1971) where he's playing in D (outside row) while happily tooting away on the Eb bass

Lars ,Is that the one I have with someone singing "My Little Thatched Cabin" at the beginning of the recording?( possibly Seamus Cooley)It has 39 tracks.It includes a very nice setting of Miss McClouds.

boxlad · « **Reply #15 on:** September 12, 2009, 02:48:31 PM »

Quote

I've only ever heard of ONE that sold for 10.000 euros - it was a "bucktooth coupler" 4 voice dark grey, same as what Billy McComiskey plays.

Here's a nice photo of John Nolan playing his grey bucktooth Paolo a few weeks ago. A lovely box indeed. This was taken at a pre-Catskill party. With him is John Whelan also having a few tunes!

pgroff · « **Reply #16 on:** September 12, 2009, 07:35:54 PM »

Here is an old Paolo with a sideways rocker switch (like on some Walters etc), instead of the two couplers. It is a 4 voice LMMM and the rocker pulls out the bassoon reed. I converted it from a stepped keyboard G/C, but the 21 melody buttons, the 12 basses, and the sideways rocker switch are original!

I hadn't seen a switch like that before but a dark grey Paolo piano box just finished on ebay (sold right here in Miami Florida USA) that had two of them!

Paul Groff

Lars · « **Reply #17 on:** September 12, 2009, 07:41:50 PM »

Quote from: pgroff on September 12, 2009, 07:35:54 PM

Here is an old Paolo with a sideways rocker switch (like on some Walters etc), instead of the two couplers. It is a 4 voice LMMM and the rocker pulls out the bassoon reed. I converted it from a stepped keyboard G/C, but the 21 melody buttons, the 12 basses, and the sideways rocker switch are original!

I hadn't seen a switch like that before but a dark grey Paolo piano box just finished on ebay (sold right here in Miami Florida USA) that had two of them!

Paul Groff

Nice box indeed!

I'm about to perform the same procedure on a 21 button 3v box. Where did you manage to get the buttons? They appear to be very identical to old Paolo buttons. Nice job you did there!

pgroff · « **Reply #18 on:** September 12, 2009, 08:00:09 PM »

Hi Lars,

The buttons and replacement aluminum keyboard plate were made to my specs by a brilliant machinist friend of mine. He normally makes parts for priceless antique sportscars but luckily for me, he took an interest in the concertina and had some that needed reedwork.

I don't remember the resin material he used for the buttons but we considered and tested a few options. The color is a good match, the material is a little denser and harder wearing though. They are made with screws installed, to screw into the black celluloid button-bases on the levers. But of course, new pilot holes into those bases were needed after re-profiling them, because the original screw-in mushroom-top buttons of the original stepped keyboard screwed in vertically, whereas the buttons from both rows are now in the same plane, at a slight angle from the original keyboard orientation. I still have the stepped aluminum board, original buttons, and original reeds, so (with a little work to those black button bases, reprofiling and adding a spacer) it could be taken right back to original state.

The grille is original and much like the grille of the dark-grey boxes. Oddly (to me) the bellows-strap "hardware" is just taller, bulbous screws to retain a leather strap. This box had zero playing wear when I got it, a real time-capsule. I suspect it might have been imported to the USA for the Portugese-American market -- I've seen a few of their groups featuring 21 key, 12 bass, 4 voice Paolos, which they call "concertinas."

Reedblocks are interchangeable with an open-action (1930s ?) 4 voice Paolo I have in storage, also in G/C and 21 key/12 bass.

It would be interesting to hear about your project as it progresses. I heard you completed and sold that baby-blue Baldoni Bartoli but that it broke in shipping...

PG

Lars · « **Reply #19 on:** September 12, 2009, 09:54:26 PM »

Quote from: pgroff on September 12, 2009, 08:00:09 PM

Hi Lars,

The buttons and replacement aluminum keyboard plate were made to my specs by a brilliant machinist friend of mine. He normally makes parts for priceless antique sportscars but luckily for me, he took an interest in the concertina and had some that needed reedwork.

I don't remember the resin material he used for the buttons but we considered and tested a few options. The color is a good match, the material is a little denser and harder wearing though. They are made with screws installed, to screw into the black celluloid button-bases on the levers. But of course, new pilot holes into those bases were needed after re-profiling them, because the original screw-in mushroom-top buttons of the original stepped keyboard screwed in vertically, whereas the buttons from both rows are now in the same plane, at a slight angle from the original keyboard orientation. I still have the stepped aluminum board, original buttons, and original reeds, so (with a little work to those black button bases, reprofiling and adding a spacer) it could be taken right back to original state.

The grille is original and much like the grille of the dark-grey boxes. Oddly (to me) the bellows-strap "hardware" is just taller, bulbous screws to retain a leather strap. This box had zero playing wear when I got it, a real time-capsule. I suspect it might have been imported to the USA for the Portugese-American market -- I've seen a few of their groups featuring 21 key, 12 bass, 4 voice Paolos, which they call "concertinas."

Reedblocks are interchangeable with an open-action (1930s ?) 4 voice Paolo I have in storage, also in G/C and 21 key/12 bass.

It would be interesting to hear about your project as it progresses. I heard you completed and sold that baby-blue Baldoni Bartoli but that it broke in shipping...

PG

Yeah, I did re-reed that blue baldoni and tuned it up, and it found a new home in the states. The new owner had it fixed - despite it being a massive blow it took, it was apparently quite easy to fix - it's now back in action.

That little red I'm about to start work on (when I get the time!) is this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21478603@N06/3878565549/
A very impressive box, superb condition, never played much, and it's got a massive cut in the 3 voices. I'm going to make a new grill with more opening, I found some perforated aluminium to make it pepperpot-style to let out more sound than the celluloid grille does. The buttons are the tricky part - I know a paolo-playing machinist, maybe I should have him take a look at it...

Do you have a trick for cutting the levers? My friend Anders and myself are both about to perform this procedure (I located one of these for him as well) and it's a little tricky to get it even and precise.

BTW: I heard you got a little black baldoni - that looks like a very very nice box! How many voices? Congrats!

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Author Topic: Grey Paolos (Read 6571 times)