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Author Topic: TOTM Chat  (Read 2666 times)

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Spikey

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TOTM Chat
« on: January 21, 2019, 09:08:53 AM »

Thank you to you both (:)

Yes, I often learn a TotM and feel that there is no point in posting as I am not playing it any differently to (or any where near as well as) the examples Clive puts up at the beginning, so I would not be adding anything worthwhile.  But have come to realise that there are people on here that can post fantastic and new ways of playing tunes, and then there are people more like me for whom it is an achievement to just learn the tune and get a half decent recording... and they're both valid ways of taking part.  Sorry, a bit of millenial-inspirational-speak creeping in ::)
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 09:27:53 PM by Clive Williams »
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Winston Smith

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Re: TOTM Off Topic Chat
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2019, 09:34:22 AM »

"and they're both valid ways of taking part"

I'm pleased that you slipped that in there, Spikey! What, with the earlier part of your post, and P&T's (an excellent player IMO) reluctance to post for a similar reason, I was beginning to think that I should never have posted my feeble attempts in the first place, and certainly shouldn't in the future. But after reading the above, I might yet torture you all again some day!
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playandteach

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Re: TOTM Off Topic Chat
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2019, 11:39:33 PM »

I've heard that remark quite a few times already and if I'm not mistaken more often from you than from anybody else. My answer is the same as always: I don't have a webcam for my PC and I too much (!) prefer decent audio quality to use anything else than my trusty microphone setup.
Guilty as charged. But ask yourself (no need to tell us), did I do any editing that I wouldn't have done with video? No blame intended, really liked your playing. I just love to see it as well as hear it. Well played, and well recorded.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: TOTM Off Topic Chat
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2019, 08:59:12 AM »

I've heard that remark quite a few times already and if I'm not mistaken more often from you than from anybody else. My answer is the same as always: I don't have a webcam for my PC and I too much (!) prefer decent audio quality to use anything else than my trusty microphone setup.
Guilty as charged. But ask yourself (no need to tell us), did I do any editing that I wouldn't have done with video? No blame intended, really liked your playing. I just love to see it as well as hear it. Well played, and well recorded.

Nothing wrong with a bit of editing. Don't see (or hear) what the problem is. Keep doing your stuff Fred.
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Greg Smith
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Fred

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Re: TOTM Off Topic Chat
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2019, 05:26:04 PM »

Sorry for further off-topic discussion but I'd like to add a bit to the statements made here.

But ask yourself (no need to tell us), did I do any editing that I wouldn't have done with video?

Yep, I did. All of my recordings are recorded and post-processed in Audacity.
I always normalise the recordings. Sometimes I also use a compressor, however not very often.

Because I don't know any video editing, I would have to learn a whole new program for that (preferably free and open source software), find a way to do the exact same things as in Audacity and at the same time keep an eye on the video quality as well. I really don't know if it's worth the hassle.

Nothing wrong with a bit of editing. Don't see (or hear) what the problem is. Keep doing your stuff Fred.

Thanks for the encouragement, Greg. And I agree on the notion regarding "a bit of editing", at least as long as it stays within its limits (see my above explanation).

Sorry, but naaaah! With some clever editing, even my playing could sound good! It's cheating!

At least from my perspective you (and of course anyone else) are more than welcome to learn/use high-class audio editing. If someone is able to pull off a decent recording and then improve on that recording by editing it (in whichever way), there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. However, one should always add a disclaimer then, so that listeners know what they're in for. (:)

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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: TOTM Off Topic Chat
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2019, 05:31:12 PM »

"Nothing wrong with a bit of editing."

Sorry, but naaaah! With some clever editing, even my playing could sound good! It's cheating!

Tell that to anyone who's ever recorded professionally.

Seriously though, I think it's a shame that people don't get a proper listen if they record on Soundcloud. If people can't be bothered to listen, why bother to record?
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Greg Smith
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Anahata

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Re: TOTM Off Topic Chat
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2019, 11:22:24 PM »

Because I don't know any video editing, I would have to learn a whole new program for that (preferably free and open source software), find a way to do the exact same things as in Audacity and at the same time keep an eye on the video quality as well. I really don't know if it's worth the hassle.

KDEnlive is pretty good these days. I use it on Linux, but it's multiplatform (and free in all senses). All my YouTube videos except the very earliest were done with it. I mostly use it for merging video from the camera with audio recorded on the computer through better (and better positioned) mics, because the camera audio track is usually pretty rough.
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Fred

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Re: TOTM Chat
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2019, 12:58:52 AM »

Interesting, thanks for the heads up, Anahata.

How do you proceed with recording audio and video separately? I can't imagine you're starting two programs, one after another, to then start the actual "recording session". Or could it be as simple as that? :thinking:
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: TOTM Chat
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2019, 01:15:38 AM »

Interesting, thanks for the heads up, Anahata.

How do you proceed with recording audio and video separately? I can't imagine you're starting two programs, one after another, to then start the actual "recording session". Or could it be as simple as that? :thinking:

When I had a camera, I used to set it recording and set my audio recorder going at the same time. Do something to make a visual and audible signal (e.g., clap) then record the tune.

Next step is take both recordings.
Raise a new video in an editor and move the video recording into it.
Open the sound file in an audio editor (I use Reaper, but Audacity is ok). Make it into what you want, then save it.
You can, then, import the audio file into your video editor and replace the camera audio with it.
Use the signal to sync the two recordings and trim the video, either end, as necessary.  [Edit: and add credits}

It's not hard.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 01:18:35 AM by Tone Dumb Greg »
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Greg Smith
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Anahata

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Re: TOTM Chat
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2019, 08:48:05 AM »

Yes, start camera, start audio recording, play!
Bear in mind that KDEnlive will let you trim the beginning and end off your video, so the final result doesn't show you pressing buttons on you computer or getting in and out of your chair. Also it will have the camera audio track as well as the separately recorded audio track, and it can time-align them. Once you've done that you can turn off the camera audio track and when you export to a new video file it will have the audio you wanted, in sync with the video.
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Anahata

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Re: TOTM Chat
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2019, 08:55:26 AM »

PS I was only partly correct about KDEnlive being multi platform: it's primarily for Linux and MacOS but has recently been ported to Windows.
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: TOTM Chat
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2019, 09:17:18 AM »

I need a tutorial in Audacity as I have tried doing work with it and failed miserably, even cutting bits out of tracks or deleting dodgy preambles. What I tend to end up with is the bit I want to lose, and I lose the bit I want to keep. Technologically challenged, that's me.
The biggest problem though, is that I can play a tune fairly well when not trying to record it, but I fall apart during my attempt to save it for posterity (posterior?)   >:E

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Fred

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Re: TOTM Chat
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2019, 11:00:57 AM »

Alright, thanks for the info. I've just downloaded the public beta of KDEnlive for Windows and will have a thorough look at it.
So far I've been trying out OpenShot Video Editor for basic cutting and realigning of videos but I am not very convinced by it. Had some problems with encoding, stuttering frames, lost audio, etc.
If everything goes well, I might search for a decent middle-class not too posh and somewhat cheap webcam to hookup to my pc. No promises though. (Looking at you, P&T ;D )
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Anahata

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Re: TOTM Chat
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2019, 11:34:23 AM »

I don't use Audacity much. I use Ardour, which I have ready installed because I have a recording studio where I make and edit multi track recordings for myself and other people. Arguably it's overkill for trimming heads and tails off stereo recordings, but it makes copy-paste editing dead easy, because it's a non-destructive editor.

For the technologically challenged, I'm not sure whether to recommend it or not because it's big and powerful (so there's quite a bit to learn), but it's free so there's no harm in trying it. I find it much more comfortable to use than Audacity. For example, if you cut the end off something in Audacity and it turns out to be in the wrong place, your only option is to undo and try again. In Ardour, you just click down on the cutoff point and drag it to the left or right until it's in the correct place. And if you fluffed a couple of notes and played the same bit correctly elsewhere, not only can you copy and paste "good version" over "bad version" (Audacity can do something like that too) but you can easily adjust the exact timing and drop in and drop out points of the edit to make it inaudible.
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Pete Dunk

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Re: TOTM Chat
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2019, 12:40:28 PM »

I need a tutorial in Audacity as I have tried doing work with it and failed miserably, even cutting bits out of tracks or deleting dodgy preambles. What I tend to end up with is the bit I want to lose, and I lose the bit I want to keep.


I'm fairly good at audio editing with Audacity, I'll contact you on messenger and see if I can talk you through the basics.
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: TOTM Chat
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2019, 01:57:42 PM »

Thanks Pete. I just found this, so will have a browse through it, before I do anything else. If all else fails, RTFM, they say.

Sir John
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playandteach

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Re: TOTM Chat
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2019, 07:37:30 PM »

Hi, all. Firstly my comments on format and editing were meant to be seen in the context of 'well played'. I've certainly done my share of playing where recordings have been stitched together to make a silk purse from a sow's ear (which isn't what Fred did). Including one recording where a conductor couldn't stay in time, and when he went to talk to the recording engineer (not in the recording box) the orchestra recorded the bit he mucked up without him, so as far as he knew the final product was proof of his ability.

Fred, I was really talking about splicing bits together to create a take out of several best bits - and as someone else hinted, this is common practice in the industry. On the other hand in terms of sound quality, we tended to pick the best venue for sound, and from that point record as natural a sound as possible. Which is sort of the opposite way round to what we might do to get a recording on youtube (recording at home and adding bloom in the editing). I've certainly owned up in early videos to cutting and pasting when I couldn't get something right all the way through, but now I feel that this struggle is the best bit (and the worst bit) about TOTM.
I may not post this time (again), because I've wanted the struggle in the original key which doesn't get the bass sound I want, but I've still enjoyed the process. TOTM is great for many reasons, especially the fact that every month has a challenge, a vote, and a fresh start.
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Jesse Smith

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Re: TOTM Chat
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2019, 02:48:17 PM »

PS I was only partly correct about KDEnlive being multi platform: it's primarily for Linux and MacOS but has recently been ported to Windows.

I tried using the Windows version of KDEnlive and for awhile it worked fine, but then it started introducing pops and crackles into the audio and nothing I could do helped to stop the problem. Eventually I ditched it and tried out the Linux version using the AV Linux distribution (at Anahata's suggestion in an old thread I found by searching). AV Linux can run right off of a bootable CD or USB drive, and it all works just fine without any of the problems the Window version of KDEnlive was giving me.
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Gena Crisman

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Re: TOTM Chat
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2019, 04:21:46 PM »

Fred, I was really talking about splicing bits together to create a take out of several best bits - and as someone else hinted, this is common practice in the industry.
...
I've certainly owned up in early videos to cutting and pasting when I couldn't get something right all the way through, but now I feel that this struggle is the best bit (and the worst bit) about TOTM.

I find it hard to create something that is what it is, accept it, step away from it and move on. I like everything I create to be the best that it can be (and I have high standards for myself) but, I know now at least that what I actually want to create is enjoyment, conversation and community, not the perfect musical performance that the other half of my brain seems to demand - I lived that way before already. At some point in your playing, your mistakes will be tune ending and frustrating, later they may become minor deficiencies such as a small hitch in rhythm or not the chord you wanted. I think everyone on some level knows the difference, and that everyone/the best of us/etc are always making minor 'errors' & recordings tend to be curated to the point where one just didn't happen to happen while it was running. But, when it's you doing it, it's important to also not continue to grow as frustrated with those issues, as while the mistakes decrease in magnitude, the strength of your feelings regarding them can stay the same, or even grow. That's something I deal with.

I'm not really... responding to anything here, I guess. I'm just posting that sometimes you gotta make sure that that struggle doesn't get out of hand, if that's something that affects you - I'd rather create something, share it and enjoy it, instead of create something and throw it away because it wasn't quite right somehow. If editing two or three bits together lets you do that, I'd say it's best to accept that, do it, and let it go. "If every porkchop were perfect, we wouldn't have hotdogs." - Greg Universe
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Re: TOTM Chat
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2019, 03:28:11 PM »

I usually record the vid using an ordinary compact camera - mine's a Panasonic DMC-TZ30. The sound quality on the built in camera mic isn't great but it's not terrible. I have occasionally uploaded that file unmodified to YouTube after copying it to my PC.

Usually though I record the sound simultaneously onto an Olympus digital sound recorder - LS10 - an old model - and copy the resulting file over and try and polish it up a bit using Audacity - usually adding a light reverb, maybe boost the bass a bit and add compression. I'm no expert though and often wonder if it wasn't better to begin with!

I then stitch the 2 files together using Windows Live Movie Maker which used to be a standard free app with Windows. I lost WLMM when I had to replace my PC and eventually took a deep breath and re-downloaded it from a reasonably respectable looking website.

My biggest problem is being inconsistent and forgetful as to where to place the LS10 during the live recording. It seems to produce a better result on manual than automatic recording level but over the years I've quite often over or under recorded the sound. I'd welcome any views on the optimum placing. Any of you who's watched my vids will know that there's usually lots of button clacking although tbf I think that's more down to my Hohner boxes and my button technique than the sound recorder.

Lastly, if it's any comfort to anyone it can take many (many!) attempts to get the initial recording to a stage where I think I can inflict it  on the world at large. Yesterday I had to recharge batteries on the camera (twice!) and on the sound recorder before the latest version of Paddy C's on the 2 row.
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