Topic: Liliput numbering and relevance to production date? (Read 11048 times)

folkloristmark · « **Reply #40 on:** September 02, 2019, 09:32:27 PM »

Grumpy I would think Mike does keep a record when he did my instruments he supplied a valuation as well as a bill.PM him. I might have your letter I will have a look

Nick Collis Bird · « **Reply #41 on:** September 03, 2019, 01:30:29 PM »

Mine is number 162532 it is pink perloid and was bought from Andreas of Fratton accordions in Brandenburg.
Being innumerate, does anyone know what age that would be?
Ps it has a diamond shaped grill.

Eshed · « **Reply #42 on:** September 03, 2019, 01:44:20 PM »

Quote from: Nick Collis Bird on September 03, 2019, 01:30:29 PM

Mine is number 162532 it is pink perloid and was bought from Andreas of Fratton accordions in Brandenburg.
Being innumerate, does anyone know what age that would be?
Ps it has a diamond shaped grill.

Most likely 1936

Nick Collis Bird · « **Reply #43 on:** September 03, 2019, 03:17:19 PM »

Many thanks Eshed.

hickory-wind · « **Reply #44 on:** September 03, 2019, 05:16:38 PM »

***revised***
Preciosa BbEb- 44070 repair
Preciosa CF- 55379 repair
Regina- 90906 available
Imperial I- 129927 sold
Liliput CF- 244488 available
Preciosa CF- 277122 sold
Club X CF- 308007 available
Regina- 370242 available
L'Organola BC- 392910 available
Liliput BbEb- 399166 sold
Ouverture Morino Club CF- 416937 available
Miniature piano- 547677 available
Regina I- 684623 available
Liliput BbEb- 697704 available
Preciosa BbEb- 726474 not for sale

Scott

BellingersButtonBoxes.com

Eshed · « **Reply #45 on:** September 03, 2019, 05:23:31 PM »

Scott, you are a saint!

Stockaryd · « **Reply #46 on:** October 10, 2020, 11:10:02 PM »

513548 B/Eb

358563 C/F

127079 C/F

All I "need" now is one in G/C

Rob2Hook · « **Reply #47 on:** October 11, 2020, 07:41:30 PM »

Trouble with serial numbers on many instruments - guitars, etc. - is that they are often not a simple number. They are often encoded by interspersing the digits and sometimes using a secondary code for dates rather like using a different calendar. Also some manufacturers, having inserted the date of manufacture, then give the number of the item within that period.

Consider part of the number could be the year, another the week or month and the third element meaning it was e.g. the 100th item that week/month. Then there's the possibility that the number could also include model number, pitch and finish. I doubt much of this applies to the Liliput numbers, but it does hint at why it seems so difficult to find a model that fully accords with the few known examples.

What is remarkable is that Hohner can still recall the details, especially from such a turbulent time. I was reminded of the time I wanted to replace the propellor on an old boat. I phoned the supplier of the original and they gave me the full specification and purchaser. As they said, their ledgers were written in pencil so didn't fade like ink. Nowadays, one hard disc failure and your whole trading history has gone down the tubes!

Rob.

Winston Smith · « **Reply #48 on:** October 11, 2020, 08:28:44 PM »

Seeing this thread pop up again, I remembered that I have acquired another Liliput since I last contributed to it. It's a C/F, with only 2 rows and it came from another member on here. The number is 252800.
So that's 2 Bb/Eb (one converted to D/G) and a C/F, they're really fun to play!
Is a 2 row Liliput rather strange, or more common than I think?

Eshed · « **Reply #49 on:** November 05, 2020, 03:18:55 PM »

From this comment by Corinto: http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,26187.msg312191.html#msg312191
Cornelia I - 307833 - 19.12.1936
Pirol - 321377 - 20.1.1937
The numbers seem to fit the rest so they likely shared the same serials as Liliputs and Preciosas.

In addition I have:
Liliput - 693366
Cornelia I - 544561
Preciosa - 61378

Anne Croucher · « **Reply #50 on:** November 05, 2020, 05:22:20 PM »

Mine is a Bb/Eb 2 rows and 4 with the number 385330. Thank you for the info of where to look.

Still looking for the missing reed for it, but it is a merry little box, still with the original leather straps and suitcase style case.

Anne

Eshed · « **Reply #51 on:** November 05, 2020, 08:11:19 PM »

I've put all serials listed here (and in other forum posts) in a spreadsheet and it seems that the solution to the German Accordion Problem is around 850,000-860,000, and assuming more or less constant production rate that will put the last accordions produced around November 1940, with 385 boxes produced per day.

This seems to be in line with the Hohner model list where the only model said to be produced during the war after 1940 is the Preciosa (1935-1943). I suspect either a small number of Preciosas were produced between 1941 and 1943 or the Hohner list is just inaccurate.

The data is here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iItwVc9eRHe4Q35NHkAer7dcW9LRcvuIfONwCfDc0lM
I've allowed commenting for anyone with the link so you're more than welcome to put a comment for any box with serial from the same period and I will add it to the sheet (please use DD/MM/YYYY for the date).

Note: If the serial you've added becomes red, it was already listed.

Theo · « **Reply #52 on:** November 05, 2020, 08:19:16 PM »

Quote from: Eshed on November 05, 2020, 08:11:19 PM

or the Hohner list is just inaccurate.

It is. The model list was worked out retrospectively from their collection of catalogues rather than from production records.

Corinto · « **Reply #53 on:** November 06, 2020, 10:06:27 AM »

FYI

also have 3 HOHNER LUCIA certificates:
LUCIA white 225810 - delivery 25 May 1936
LUCIA white 597818 - delivery 05 December 1938
LUCIA red 694802 - delivery 21 September 1939

Eshed · « **Reply #54 on:** November 06, 2020, 12:23:28 PM »

Quote from: Corinto on November 06, 2020, 10:06:27 AM

FYI

also have 3 HOHNER LUCIA certificates:
LUCIA white 225810 - delivery 25 May 1936
LUCIA white 597818 - delivery 05 December 1938
LUCIA red 694802 - delivery 21 September 1939

Many thanks Corinto! You've given us many data points all across the timeline :)

So this improves the accuracy of our estimate and puts it at 390 boxes a day. Production rate still looks remarkably constant:

Winston Smith · « **Reply #55 on:** November 06, 2020, 09:12:49 PM »

Well done, Eshed. Graphs are easier!

hickory-wind · « **Reply #56 on:** November 06, 2020, 10:22:59 PM »

Very nice graph. Thanks. I added three more boxes to the database today.

Scott

Eshed · « **Reply #57 on:** November 07, 2020, 09:30:00 PM »

Thank you Scott!

To encourage everybody to add their box to the list, I've added a column which will automatically calculate the estimated date based on the serial number.
You can add your box to the bottom of the list, the order of the list is not important.

Stockaryd · « **Reply #58 on:** November 18, 2020, 04:33:24 PM »

846504 Liliput C/F Red

Stig Bubblecard · « **Reply #59 on:** November 18, 2020, 05:05:04 PM »

360191 Liliput Bb/Eb Pink Pearloid

News:

Author Topic: Liliput numbering and relevance to production date? (Read 11048 times)