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[Pat McInnis]

First off, a big thanks to everyone who has guided me so far in my attempt to learn how to tune reeds. My table is working very well and seems to be a fairly comfortable work station. I definitely need to up my file game but for now it just means that I need to work a little harder to get results with my older small files. Having spare reed blocks to learn on was a very important step. I'm not sure why I decided to start on the small end but I did and ended up destroying a few reeds in the process. I'm now several hours deep and the motions are starting to get a bit more comfortable. I even experimented with a small amount of soldering with positive results.
I understand that I want the final tune (in situ) of the one reed to be around zero with it's mate being 4-5 cents sharp. (Please correct me if I'm wrong at any stage) So should I be thinking about aiming a bit on the sharp side for the tuning table or do I have that backwards?

[Theo]

Two things.

Please please get yourself a top quality small fine file.  They aren't terribly expensive and you will be surprised how much easier the job becomes. 

On my tuning table reeds sound a few cents sharp compared with tuning them in the box, but I've heard that other people find the reverse.  It also varies from reed to reed, between push and pull, and on how close the reed is to an adjacent block, and on the the size of the reed. and possibly on other variables too.

[Pat McInnis]

Please please get yourself a top quality small fine file. 

I have noticed you recommend some in the past. Do you have any links where to shop?

[Steve_freereeder]

I understand that I want the final tune (in situ) of the one reed to be around zero with it's mate being 4-5 cents sharp. (Please correct me if I'm wrong at any stage) So should I be thinking about aiming a bit on the sharp side for the tuning table or do I have that backwards?

Summary work flow which should help answer your question:

1. Block off the tremolo set of reeds with a strip of paper underneath the reed blocks.
2. Put the reed block back in the instrument.
3. Play each note in turn and write down the actual pitch of each note in cents. This will tell you how far out of tune each note is.
4. On the tuning table, sound each note in turn. Adjust the tuning up or down according to the difference noted in step 3.
5. Return the reed block to the instrument and repeat step 3. You should find that the pitch of each reed should be close to the final target pitch.
6. Repeat steps 4 and 5 until you are within, say, 0.5 cents of your target pitch.

7. Remove the strip of paper from the tremolo reed blocks.
8. With the reed blocks in the instrument, play each note and listen carefully to the tremolo. Write down whether it is (a) non-existant, (b) too slow, (c) sounds about right, (d) too fast. Use your ears mainly, but overall each note should sound slightly sharp* of step 6 and with a degree of tremolo.
9. With the reed blocks in situ in the instrument (unless access is impossible), adjust the tuning of the tremolo reeds in each case as follows:
(a and b) sharpen the reed; (c) leave it unchanged; (d) flatten the reed. You can test the results by holding the treble end in situ, but with no bellows pins fitted, perhaps just one bellows strap to help hold it in place. 
10. Repeat steps 8 and 9 until the tremolo sounds OK to your ears.

*If the overall pitch of the two sounding reeds is flat compared with step 6, it means that the tremolo reed is flatter than the non-tremolo reed and needs to be tuned to be sharper

[Pat McInnis]

I should print off this order of events and maybe turn it into a song to burn it into my brain. I regret not doing steps 1-3 to get a baseline in the instrument. I'm a bit too far on this set to go back but I'll use this method in the future.

[Theo]

It’s much easier to just learn to tune the reeds in the instrument.

[tirpous]

I have noticed you recommend some in the past. Do you have any links where to shop?

See this recent thread:

http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,23408.0.html

(speaking of thread, shouldn't this discussion be in 'Instrument Design, Construction and Repair' ??)

[Steve_freereeder]

I regret not doing steps 1-3 to get a baseline in the instrument. I'm a bit too far on this set to go back but I'll use this method in the future.

You really need to establish a new baseline from wherever you are now. Unless you know what the baseline is, you can't correct for any errors (usually sharper than needed) on your tuning bellows. Trying to tune without knowing what the baseline values are in the instrument is a recipe, if not for disaster, then at least for frustration and inaccurate results.

[Pat McInnis]

(speaking of thread, shouldn't this discussion be in 'Instrument Design, Construction and Repair' ??)

It's a split decision. The thread is about "learning" and although it may be about learning how to tune and not play it is still about learning.

[Winston Smith]

As I understand it, Pat is only tuning his box up from a flat old pitch to modern concert pitch. I therefore think that the steps of manually recording of the original tuning are not really necessary, and that just playing the one reed at a time (in the box) and then tuning it to suit should be sufficient.

I don't think I've used my separate bellows for a long time, finding it easier to use the actual instrument and whipping the reedblock in and out of the end if and when filing or scratching becomes awkward to do in situ.

Mind you, I'm certainly not on top of this lark yet, especially tuning the + set to create the desired tremolo! We're sooooo fortunate to have Theo and Steve, who are prepared to pass on their years of experience, even if it takes a long time and a lot of frustration for nuggets like me to get our heads around it! Thanks, both of you.

[Pat McInnis]

As I understand it, Pat is only tuning his box up from a flat old pitch to modern concert pitch. I therefore think that the steps of manually recording of the original tuning are not really necessary, and that just playing the one reed at a time (in the box) and then tuning it to suit should be sufficient.

I don't think I've used my separate bellows for a long time, finding it easier to use the actual instrument and whipping the reedblock in and out of the end if and when filing or scratching becomes awkward to do in situ.

Mind you, I'm certainly not on top of this lark yet, especially tuning the + set to create the desired tremolo! We're sooooo fortunate to have Theo and Steve, who are prepared to pass on their years of experience, even if it takes a long time and a lot of frustration for nuggets like me to get our heads around it! Thanks, both of you.

I would also like to echo Edward's thanks. Here's a question to roll your eyes to. What is the "flat old pitch" compared to "concert pitch"? Seems like something I should know.

As mentioned above, I'm trying to get one row close to 00 and the other 04-05 cents more.

[Winston Smith]

For simplicity, I'd reply that it's any tuning where the reeds are all flat by a similar amount. But I'm sure that someone much more knowledgeable will be along to give you chapter and verse.

[Tone Dumb Greg]

I would also like to echo Edward's thanks. Here's a question to roll your eyes to. What is the "flat old pitch" compared to "concert pitch"? Seems like something I should know.

[/quote]

All things to all ages. Concert pitch has changed over the years. Steve knows more about this than most.

[Steve_freereeder]

As I understand it, Pat is only tuning his box up from a flat old pitch to modern concert pitch. I therefore think that the steps of manually recording of the original tuning are not really necessary, and that just playing the one reed at a time (in the box) and then tuning it to suit should be sufficient.

Totally disagree with this. It doesn't matter what original pitch the instrument is in. If you don't establish a baseline starting pitch to begin with, you will have no idea of any corrections you need to make to compensate for pitch errors associated with the particular method of sounding the reeds being employed.

Even with the reeds in situ in the box being sounded with its own bellows, there can be a slight change in pitch once the box is fully assembled with all the bellows pins and fittings in place. In that particular case it may not be much but it can be enough to affect the tremolo rate between M and the M+ reeds. In my experience, the reeds nearest the ends of the reed blocks and those closest to the reed block connecting brace (if fitted) are the most susceptible to this effect.

[Pat McInnis]

Two Swiss made tri-square needle files are one their way.

[Winston Smith]

"Totally disagree with this."

Obviously, I'll bow to the wisdom gained from experience!

But, I would have thought that the "baseline starting pitch" of the reed to be tuned, would be that which showed up on the meter when the reed was sounded in the box? I cannot yet see the point of recording that reading.

[Steve_freereeder]

But, I would have thought that the "baseline starting pitch" of the reed to be tuned, would be that which showed up on the meter when the reed was sounded in the box?

Correct, with the proviso that the box is fully assembled, with all bellows pins and fittings in place.

I cannot yet see the point of recording that reading.

Just to be sure, recording in this instance means 'writing it down' either on paper on a layout chart, or else electronically on a spreadsheet of some sort. It doens't mean making an audio recording.

I don't know how I can say this more clearly: unless you make a note of the baseline readings, you will not know what correction to apply for inherent errors when the reed is sounded in any other environment, e.g. on a tuning table outside the box, or in a partly assembled box, etc. And if you fail to take these corrections into account you will not be able to tune accurately.

[Winston Smith]

I didn't mean "sound" recording, but that's by the by.
Otherwise, I stand corrected (as usual!). Thank you.

[Cam Button]

How would you tune the the high and low reeds for a four voice instrument?
Set the middle reeds first. One set on pitch, and the other sharp.
Then tune the high, and low reeds on pitch? Or sharp?

[tirpous]

For a four voice LMMH combination, the L and H reeds are usually tuned to pitch.