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Author Topic: Beginner problems  (Read 3224 times)

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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Beginner problems
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2019, 08:42:32 AM »

You've triggered a memory from my early playing days:
I remember struggling with the waltz basses when other rhythms were coming along quite well.
I used to play non waltzes to reinforce the bass/treble hand/brain links and then keep on going back to waltzes until I cracked it, and sure enough it did come!
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Alan Pittwood

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Re: Beginner problems
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2019, 03:04:31 PM »

Warren

The development of a skill to performance level involves three stages [the technical aspects/names of these are better avoided unless you are a student on a Certificate in Education course] that may be expressed in the melodeon-learning context as:

listen and look ;
repeat and practise;
extend and perform.

A good way to proceed is to listen to recordings of working musicians.  For examples.  Either go by the tune: Johnny's so long at the fair (Oh dear, what can the matter be) was played by Scan Tester and others on English Country Music Topic TSCD607 (CD, UK, 2000) as a waltz and by Arnold Woodley on Rig-a-jig-jig Voice of the people #9 Topic TSCD659 (CD, UK, October 1998) as a jig-time Morris dance tune.  Or by performer: Bob Cann  'Proper Job!' - Melodeon playing from Dartmoor recorded 1952-1988 Veteran VT138CD.



If you hold your collection of music in ABC notation you can use programs like ABC Explorer and Easy ABC to play the tunes to you [and slow them down without change of pitch] allowing you to play along to build confidence in both melody and basses.

What is your goal?  What do you want to do with your playing?  If it is playing for dancers then find some dancers and their musician(s) and join in with them - that was how I started over fifty years ago.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 03:08:30 PM by Alan Pittwood »
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The Oul' Boy

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Re: Beginner problems
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2019, 07:23:32 PM »

What is your goal?  What do you want to do with your playing?  If it is playing for dancers then find some dancers and their musician(s) and join in with them - that was how I started over fifty years ago.

Thanks Alan.

As for what my goal is, right now it is to learn to play well to please myself and anyone else who listens. I live in Scotland these days, so there may not be many dancers to join in with (though this is Edinburgh, so who know?!), but that's not my primary aim at this stage.
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Warren M
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The Oul' Boy

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Re: Beginner problems
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2019, 07:29:29 PM »

So that's the good news. The "bad" news is that once you get this you'll be wanting to switch chords, and then control the length of the oom and the pah, and then you'll want to go beyond oom-pahs and start adding bass runs, and basically it just never ends. ::)

Ha ha, I don't mind, it's fun learning!
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Warren M
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Alan Pittwood

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Re: Beginner problems
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2019, 08:05:53 PM »

Quote
As for what my goal is, right now it is to learn to play well to please myself and anyone else who listens.

Warren

That's fine.
Listen to as much melodeon playing as you can; listen to as much of the music you want to play; use IT to support your practice.  Playing music with other musicians is a good way to extend your practice and understand the performance by others.
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Chris Rayner

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Re: Beginner problems
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2019, 08:31:51 PM »


As for what my goal is, right now it is to learn to play well to please myself and anyone else who listens. I live in Scotland these days, so there may not be many dancers to join in with (though this is Edinburgh, so who know?!), but that's not my primary aim at this stage.

It may be just as well that there are no Morris sides local to you.  I somewhat diffidently went to the local team, and now I find myself, a year later, desperately trying to learn enough tunes to feel I’m pulling my weight; great fun though.

I have also discovered that, even though the standard D/G box appears to be severely handicapped by limitations in all directions, there is a wider range of musical possibilities than first appears.  Currently I’m working my way through some Billie Holliday songs.  The accidentals at the top end allow all manner of blue notes to be played.
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Jeremy Gunson

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Re: Beginner problems
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2019, 09:06:51 PM »

I have been learning how to play vallenato and cumbia so the bass rhythms are probably a bit different, but in any case I found working through scales and just one song at a very slow pace have helped. If you take the time to break down the tune bit by bit it will certainly pay off... Also, just tapping away with my bass fingers all the time, at work, brushing teeth, walking along... especially to music :) , just about to start learning english melodeon got a DVD and the replies on this thread will surely come in handy !
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 09:28:18 PM by Jeremy Gunson »
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Peadar

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Re: Beginner problems
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2019, 10:02:07 PM »

Quote
As for what my goal is, right now it is to learn to play well to please myself and anyone else who listens. I live in Scotland these days, so there may not be many dancers to join in with (though this is Edinburgh, so who know?!), but that's not my primary aim at this stage.

Warren,

I doubt very much that there is a ceilidh dance class in Scotland (even in Edinburgh) that would not welcome an aspiring dance musician looking for victims to practice on! (Especially if he is willing to play one 8 bar phrase at a time and repeatedly as the teacher takes the class through a dance). A willing musician is a lot easier to work with than a CD player.

If you want to go that road I suggest you get hold of the First (or Second) Ceilidh Collection For Fiddlers (Taigh nan Teud ISBN 1-871931-35-5). There is a good selection of Scottish dance and song melodies there- mainly in the keys of G & D.  Tog Fonn 1 is also good - a mixture of puirt-a-beul and songs, all set in G or D.

One word of warning- I am on a one row in G, which is an octave lower than the G of a D/G box.

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busbox

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Re: Beginner problems
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2019, 10:09:06 PM »

When I had the pleasure (?) of interviewing some MPs, I asked whether they would do things differently. The wisest answer I heard was to the effect that there is little point in looking back because you woud make a different lot of mistakes.
Having said that, there is a point of view that says we learn by our mistakes so we should not think of them negatively. Mind you, there is another which says to be careful what and how we practise because we can be reinforcing errors.
I don't know that I would do anything differently. I suppose that I am not a perfectionist. I'm Australian.
Tony
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george garside

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Re: Beginner problems
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2019, 10:18:05 PM »

there are in fact  1st 2nd 3rd and 4th ceilidh collection for fidlers and they do come up sometimes on ebay. I find them very useful.

george
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george garside

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Re: Beginner problems
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2019, 10:20:02 PM »

When I had the pleasure (?) of interviewing some MPs, I asked whether they would do things differently. The wisest answer I heard was to the effect that there is little point in looking back because you woud make a different lot of mistakes.
Having said that, there is a point of view that says we learn by our mistakes so we should not think of them negatively. Mind you, there is another which says to be careful what and how we practise because we can be reinforcing errors.
I don't know that I would do anything differently. I suppose that I am not a perfectionist. I'm Australian.
Tony
[/quote

indeed - a mistake is alos an opportunity! . or every negative has a positive!

george
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baz parkes

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Re: Beginner problems
« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2019, 01:26:48 PM »

there are in fact  1st 2nd 3rd and 4th ceilidh collection for fidlers and they do come up sometimes on ebay. I find them very useful.

george

Hi Warren...I have a collection of music books for sale...not sure they include the above but if you might be interested PM me and I'' send you a list.
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Gary

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Re: Beginner problems
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2019, 09:37:26 PM »

Find a way to play and enjoy yourself. getting to bogged down in the never ending technical challenges is in my view a way of sucking out all the fun.  I know many tunes right hand only and have my own way of adding left hand. Its not as correct as many prefer but is fun and people who listen to me do enjoy the result!
As everyone agress, keep practicing and pushing and pulling onto the next  tune which appeals to you.
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The Oul' Boy

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Re: Beginner problems
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2019, 06:27:55 PM »

Just a quick update on this, a month-and-a-half on. I have now mastered oom-pah oom-pah with the Winster Gallop and oom-pah-pah with Oh Dear What Can the Matter Be, and am also applying them to other tunes, though the difficulty increases when the rhythm of the right and left hands are different. I've also been trying to get to grips with oom - pah oom - pah for Lillibulero, which is proving to be reasonably challenging, but breaking it down bar by bar is helping, especially when the left and right hands aren't in the same rhythm. Happy with progress, will keep practicing (though it's very enjoyable, so maybe practicing is the wrong word).
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Warren M
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Beginner problems
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2019, 06:38:16 PM »

Oh well done!
It sounds like the door is creaking open showing you light on the other side.
Now you've cracked it you will find learning start to speed up.
At this point you simply have to just keep plodding along, you're on your way so enjoy the journey.
Cheers
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

The Oul' Boy

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Re: Beginner problems
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2019, 07:36:39 PM »

Oh well done!
It sounds like the door is creaking open showing you light on the other side.
Now you've cracked it you will find learning start to speed up.
At this point you simply have to just keep plodding along, you're on your way so enjoy the journey.
Cheers
Q

Thank you (and for your encouragement before and tip on breaking it down bar by bar), much appreciated! Still a long way to go, but at least I appear to be going somewhere.
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Warren M
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Alan Morley

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Re: Beginner problems
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2019, 09:33:55 AM »

I played harmonica since I was around 10 years old so when I got an Erica I took too it quite well.

The main problem I had was that I used to breath in and out as you would with harmonicas. Not a great idea with quicker tunes as you tend to hyperventilate.... :|bl
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Beginner problems
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2019, 09:45:55 AM »

I played harmonica since I was around 10 years old so when I got an Erica I took too it quite well.

The main problem I had was that I used to breath in and out as you would with harmonicas. Not a great idea with quicker tunes as you tend to hyperventilate.... :|bl

I seem to be stuck with breathing in sympathy with the melodeon bellows. Sometimes I get the same problem.
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Peadar

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Re: Beginner problems
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2019, 12:27:05 PM »

Last night I got an old PA going (for someone else). Testing it out after I got the reeds going really freaked me out. The b****y thing wouldn't change note when I switched from push to pull. It was even more difficult to pull through push notes and push through pull notes.
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Dick Rees

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Re: Beginner problems
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2019, 12:52:43 PM »

I played harmonica since I was around 10 years old so when I got an Erica I took too it quite well.

The main problem I had was that I used to breath in and out as you would with harmonicas. Not a great idea with quicker tunes as you tend to hyperventilate.... :|bl

I had exactly the same experience and had to play sitting on the floor surrounded with couch cushions and pillows for padding if and when I tipped over.  That phase lasted a couple of weeks.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 04:48:33 PM by Dick Rees »
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