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Author Topic: Enlarging the air hole in a Black Pearl II  (Read 4140 times)

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nigelr

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Enlarging the air hole in a Black Pearl II
« on: February 19, 2019, 04:12:33 PM »

Any thoughts from the melnet hive mind on the practicalities of enlarging the air hole on a Dino Baffetti Black Pearl II?

My BPII just doesn't breathe anywhere near as well as the Oakwood Super 2. meaning I have to play the two very differently.  The air button mechanisms between the two are very different but the main thing is the hole in the Super 2 is twice the size of the one on the BPII.  The BPII palette hinges on the long end rather than lifts completely off the hole.  The Super 2 lifts off, but on the other side of the board into the body of the box rather than upwards towards the outside case.

At the basic level, I'm looking at making the hole bigger and making a new palette that covers the new hole.  I am assuming I will have to dismantle the mechanism and reassemble to do this.  Anything else that needs to be considered (including don't be a fool, get a professional to do it)?  I am looking at this as my first foray into melodeon customisation and so don't want to start drilling holes in things until I've looked at the options.  Thanks.  N
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Enlarging the air hole in a Black Pearl II
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2019, 06:57:59 PM »

Intereted in informed replies to this as I am thinking of doing something similar. I would say that it's worth bearing in mind that area is proportional to the square of the radius and proceeding cautiously.
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Lester

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Re: Enlarging the air hole in a Black Pearl II
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2019, 07:09:49 PM »

Without one to take apart my first suggestion (guess) would be to open the bass end and draw around the air button pallet with a pencil, then remove the pallet and see what scope there is to open up the air hole. As TDG said small increases may well make large changes. Probably best to square the circle (assuming the air hole is circular) as an opening gambit.

rees

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Re: Enlarging the air hole in a Black Pearl II
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2019, 10:07:51 PM »

As Lester says, but take it a step further. See if there's any extra space to accommodate a larger pallet.
Draw that outline with a pencil and make a new pallet to fit (easy woodworking job).
Draw another line 5mm inside the new pallet profile. Cut the hole to this line. It doesn't have to be a round or a square hole, whatever, a handheld router is best for the job.
There you go.
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Gena Crisman

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Re: Enlarging the air hole in a Black Pearl II
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2019, 10:31:37 PM »

The difference in air button might be based on the age of the instruments - the pallet for my black pearl is on the inside of the instrument also, as can be seen here, which I think is what you're saying your DB Super does?

The hole in mine is really quite small though - in my case, a long, fairly narrow slit, with a metal arm poking through to meet up with the air lever on the other side. Mechanically speaking, the Air button is probably simplest mechanism in a melodeon, and you can probably make all sorts of things work for it.

Have a go, and take some pictures while you're at it.

edit: photos from my box:
inside (reedside): https://i.imgur.com/a9PX8Bi.jpg
outside (mechside): https://i.imgur.com/oT7pS3l.jpg
and the rebuilt air button (apparently it broke several times before my custodianship began) https://i.imgur.com/ng9hexX.jpg
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 10:47:45 PM by Gena Crisman »
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Rog

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Re: Enlarging the air hole in a Black Pearl II
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2019, 06:16:25 AM »

Be mindful that if the fondo/bulkhead is ply, it might split at the edge of your cut, esp if you hack away with a blade, and cause headache/heartache/damage you don’t want.  No doubt this is the reason why Rees recommends a small router.

nigelr

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Re: Enlarging the air hole in a Black Pearl II
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2019, 08:38:25 AM »

The difference in air button might be based on the age of the instruments - the pallet for my black pearl is on the inside of the instrument also, as can be seen here, which I think is what you're saying your DB Super does?
Yes, that looks like it.

Thanks all for the information - I think I'll try Lester's idea first of enlarging the hole with the existing pallet and see what results I get, then move on to Rees' plan if I feel it needs some more.  The air button itself is pretty flimsy, so I might try a bit of modification there as well (thanks for the pics Gena).  I'll post pictures back here as I go.  Thanks again.  (:)
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 08:40:22 AM by nigelr »
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Lester

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Re: Enlarging the air hole in a Black Pearl II
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2019, 09:26:18 AM »

The air button itself is pretty flimsy, so I might try a bit of modification there as well


One of the more common fixes I do for people is air button repairs on Baffettis. Who ever thought that using a piece of steel or alloy as the button mounting needs a course in metal fatigue. They will invariably snap off eventually. My fix for this is to replace the metal 'hinge' with a slice of a plastic hotel door key, in addition to using it to replace the hinge I run it the full length of the button so the air button mechanism arm runs on the slippy plastic as well. Makes the air button less stiff.

nigelr

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Re: Enlarging the air hole in a Black Pearl II
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2019, 01:05:12 PM »

My fix for this is to replace the metal 'hinge' with a slice of a plastic hotel door key, in addition to using it to replace the hinge I run it the full length of the button so the air button mechanism arm runs on the slippy plastic as well. Makes the air button less stiff.
Brilliant, thank you  (:)
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Gena Crisman

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Re: Enlarging the air hole in a Black Pearl II
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2019, 03:20:11 PM »

One of the more common fixes I do for people is air button repairs on Baffettis. Who ever thought that using a piece of steel or alloy as the button mounting needs a course in metal fatigue. They will invariably snap off eventually. My fix for this is to replace the metal 'hinge' with a slice of a plastic hotel door key, in addition to using it to replace the hinge I run it the full length of the button so the air button mechanism arm runs on the slippy plastic as well. Makes the air button less stiff.

I believe newer DB instruments come with a redesigned air button, with a little axle or something perhaps? Either way I believe they finally dealt with this (perhaps fairly obvious) design flaw a few years ago. I played a new carnival 3 with a nicer air button a little over a year ago, at least.

The 'fix' for the air button in my BP2 is actually fairly heavy, I get a callus on the side of my thumb from it. Maybe I should fix that... since this was was reported to have broken several times, perhaps whomever fixed it was a bit overzealous. Going to watch this thread intently because it could do with letting a bit more more air in, now that I think about it.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 03:29:44 PM by Gena Crisman »
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Re: Enlarging the air hole in a Black Pearl II
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2019, 04:18:37 PM »

I have visions of hordes of digruntled hotel guests who can't get into their rooms because people have nicked their plastic door cards to fettle melodeon air buttons.
  >:E
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nigelr

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Re: Enlarging the air hole in a Black Pearl II
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2019, 04:30:52 PM »

Going to watch this thread intently because it could do with letting a bit more more air in, now that I think about it.
I'll post a picture of the current hole/mechanism either this evening or tomorrow.

I have visions of hordes of digruntled hotel guests who can't get into their rooms because people have nicked their plastic door cards to fettle melodeon air buttons.
  >:E
I'm already regretting not keeping my key from the hotel I was in at the weekend for the Lancashire Wallopers do  ;D

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Re: Enlarging the air hole in a Black Pearl II
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2019, 06:03:20 PM »

One has to ask, are hotel cards better than the bountiful supply of credit card sized membership and promotional cards that are available? Or just slightly more satisfying if the hotel service wasn't up to scratch?
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rees

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Re: Enlarging the air hole in a Black Pearl II
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2019, 06:54:20 PM »

The air button itself is pretty flimsy, so I might try a bit of modification there as well


One of the more common fixes I do for people is air button repairs on Baffettis. Who ever thought that using a piece of steel or alloy as the button mounting needs a course in metal fatigue. They will invariably snap off eventually. My fix for this is to replace the metal 'hinge' with a slice of a plastic hotel door key, in addition to using it to replace the hinge I run it the full length of the button so the air button mechanism arm runs on the slippy plastic as well. Makes the air button less stiff.

Great minds, etc. I too have recently replaced a broken steel strip with plastic. I used the bottom off a milk carton. Works a treat.
It was for a well known professional box player so I hope it lasts!
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nigelr

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Re: Enlarging the air hole in a Black Pearl II
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2019, 06:57:47 PM »

So here is the starting point.  These pictures show (1) the pallet when it is open and (2) the size of the hole once the pallet mechanism is removed.  The hole is bigger than I thought it was but there still seems to be a small amount of room to increase the size.  There is space to increase the length of the hole and pallet but it looks like the bass reed block would be in the way (I haven't taken the bellows off to look yet).
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Squeaky Pete

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Re: Enlarging the air hole in a Black Pearl II
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2019, 07:01:29 PM »

I've just been practicing with a borrowed Baffetti and I was struggling a bit grabbing enough air. No idea what model, but it's a 2 row 3 voice.
I noticed that if you almost push the button below the casing (like you can with pokerwork RH buttons, if it doesn't give you nightmares), you get vastly more air but it doesn't feel a natural position for the thumb.
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playandteach

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Re: Enlarging the air hole in a Black Pearl II
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2019, 10:35:07 PM »

So here is the starting point. 
That's not a great design, is it? Precious little leverage, just seems to rely on rotation. Is it catching on the reed pallet (can the reed pallet be moved a bit too?). Others may shout me down for this suggestion as I'm hardly qualified, but I did do it once.
Then the only other suggestion I have to make, is that enlarging the hole on the reed side is pointless anyway as the pallet doesn't open on that side.
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Re: Enlarging the air hole in a Black Pearl II
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2019, 10:55:52 PM »

Looking at the second picture, the hole is close to the pencil line of the pallet edge. I'd be tempted to make that gap even and enlarge the hole to a rectangle shape so the overlap is constant.
Maybe a multitool to do the cutting? Sand the edges to help even out the last ounce of airflow. With extensive use of a vacuum cleaner obviously.
This should give maybe 50% more area.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 11:04:10 PM by Squeaky Pete »
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Gena Crisman

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Re: Enlarging the air hole in a Black Pearl II
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2019, 01:06:59 AM »

I've just been practicing with a borrowed Baffetti and I was struggling a bit grabbing enough air. No idea what model, but it's a 2 row 3 voice.

If it was imported into this country through the music room or squeezeboxes, I think that narrows it down a lot - if it's a got a wooden outside, it's a carnival, if it's black celluloid, it's a black pearl. If it has a 3rd stop, it's newer, if it doesn't then, it's older, and you can use the grill design to somewhat inform of the age, I think? If it's wooden but has an oakwood style grill then I guess it's a binci or super. Being that it's a 3 voice, it'll be an III for all of those things, so, eg a Carnival III. Some of them can have 4 note chords, too, but, not if they have a 3rds stop.

So here is the starting point.  These pictures show (1) the pallet when it is open and (2) the size of the hole once the pallet mechanism is removed.  The hole is bigger than I thought it was but there still seems to be a small amount of room to increase the size.  There is space to increase the length of the hole and pallet but it looks like the bass reed block would be in the way (I haven't taken the bellows off to look yet).

Wow that looks weird! And interesting! I'd love to see more of the bass mechanism compartment - you can possibly use imgur to upload larger photos, which is what I do when I'm not interested in dealing with melnet's file size limits. Is there reed sharing, or is it just a cantilever setup.

But uh, to the topic in hand, wow, that air button seems kinda awful! Like it's just opening up into the side of the box! I'm not sure you can even really make it much bigger in the direction you have the most space, because there's a reed block in the way - I think you can see the corner of it peeking around. You might be better off with a more aggressive solution.
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