Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Grape Ape]

Seeking thoughts, opinions, musings and even perhaps a scolding or two from the collective wisdom that is melnet.

I have been playing for about six years now.  I have become fairly good at learning tunes by ear, and using French style tablature when necessary.  By fairly good, I mean by my own assessment, and by friends and family for whom I play.  I have thus far taken great pride in the fact I am self taught and that I own every bit of progress I have made.  The thing is, even after six years, I often make mistakes some of which still derail me completely, and I still fall apart when playing in front of strangers.  I also almost never use right hand chords, and I feel that I could do more with the basses.  I also still do not feel confident except when I play by myself.

So.... One day while talking with one of my customers we got to talking about button boxes and it turns out this guy is a big polka fan and attends all kind of events with Slovenian themed music, done apparently in the “Cleveland style” which is apparently not gone but merely aging.  He told me of a woman “the” woman he called her to teach button box.  As I have been feeling at a bit of a plateau lately I got excited.  Of course she only teaches polkas.

Do I swallow my pride at having taught myself in favor of becoming a better player?
Do I denounce my hatred of polkas? (I don’t really hate them at all, it is just the only thing Americans in this part of the country think Accordions are capable of and I vowed to show the fine people of Ohio that it is capable of so much more)
Do I just go with it? After all, polkas use non stop right hand chords and definitely break away from the waltz rhythm of the left hand.  I mean can’t I just learn a bunch of polkas and then use my new found knowledge and understanding to better play the frenchy continental and jazzy tunes I like so much?
Am I crossing over to the dark side here and flirting with things I do not understand? (Such as a 4row Steirische Harmonka)

I am not sure what I expect people to say- I am most interested I guess in the experiences of others.  I did attend my first lesson today, and the teacher is quite excellent, I am finding it challenging, and I learned my very first polka.  I have to say it was fun, and she is already introducing me to chords, bass rythms, and fingering that I have not used before.  She does have me using just 3 fingers on the basses, which is odd as I am used to using 4, and she keeps telling me to put my right thumb back in the groove. 

[Jesse Smith]

Sometimes ya gotta take what you can get! But (and I say this as someone who is from Buffalo and is one quarter Polish) I would burn my accordions before I took up a career playing stuff like "Who Stole the Kishka" and "The Too Fat Polka".

It's 2019, maybe you could do lessons by Skype or FaceTime or something with someone who teaches the music you love?

[Dick Rees]

A peer group is always helpful.  If you are a "peerless" player, try using a metronome for a partner.  It can really take the pressure off.

[Tone Dumb Greg]

To be honest, pride should have nothing to do with it. You want to be a better player? Do what you have to to get there.

Struck me that you don't mention playing with other people. It's one of the best ways to improve and the best way to do that is to find a band or a session. If you can't find one advertise for like minded people and form your own.

[Eshed]

Go for it.
The fact that you're studying a specific style doesn't mean you must play everything that way, just learn and make the most of what you want to incorporate in your own style.
Worst case if you're not enjoying it you can just leave at any time.

[Grape Ape]

Sometimes ya gotta take what you can get! But (and I say this as someone who is from Buffalo and is one quarter Polish) I would burn my accordions before I took up a career playing stuff like "Who Stole the Kishka" and "The Too Fat Polka".

It's 2019, maybe you could do lessons by Skype or FaceTime or something with someone who teaches the music you love?

This made me laugh because that is always how I felt- though these days, MADness having crept deep into my bones, that would be quite a fire!

Not much of a techy guy so skype wouldn’t be my thing, and as far as I can tell- there are NO like minded people near by for sessions- But there are people who do polka sessions....

I am trying not hate them so much- Everything I play is in minor keys- might he nice to broaden the horizons and like Eshed says use what I learn for my own purposes- mainly bass runs and right hand chords...

[Grape Ape]

Greg, this would appear to be my best (and only) opportunity to play with other box players without driving at least 4 hours.

[Winston Smith]

I'm in a similar boat, so to speak, as I've been pretending to play for getting on 4 years. Entirely self-taught, but for a couple of sessions with our own Mr Dumpleton, the lovely Miss Biggs and even an hour or so with the marvellous Mr Vic Gammon, but I stubbornly didn't actually gain much from their teaching. I think it's because I don't have a burning desire to improve much, although it's obvious that I should make the effort to do just that! 

It seems to me that you do have that desire, and therefore (as the others have said) you should go for it. Playing music that doesn't really appeal to you could really have an effect on your application, and any new techniques or skills could surely be adapted/incorporated into your normal chosen style, where the enjoyment would finally come into its own as better playing. (Even if it is still by yourself!)

I've only recently wanted to start playing (well, a bit!) on two rows, simply because I really like playing my Liliput, which is the only box I have with me. It is stretching me more than usual.

I could liken our respective situations to my giving up smoking, in that I was nagged to by family and the Nanny State for years (which actually made me more determined not to). But then suddenly, and without warning, I decided that I wanted to stop, and did so without any trouble whatsoever, even after being a committed smoker for over 40 years!

The desire MUST be there in order to succeed!

[Nick Collis Bird]

“Still making mistakes after six years” Huh!! Frank, I’m still making mistakes after nearly 50 years. 

[Theo]

You will always learn something useful if you spend time with really good musicians, even if they play a completely different kind of music.
And making mistakes?  John Kirkpatrick,  one of the best musicians I know, regularly makes mistakes in public performances.  They have become part of his style.

[Tone Dumb Greg]

Greg, this would appear to be my best (and only) opportunity to play with other box players without driving at least 4 hours.

Fair enough, but I wasn't really thinking of playing with other box players. Just other musicians at  a reasonable level. You'd be the box player.

I do meet a selection of box players in the Summer dance outs, but I'm the only melodeon player in our side, past the beginner phase and that quite suits, tbh. I'm playing with two fiddle players, a mandolin player, a Uilleann  piper, a guitar player, a bass player and an impromptu percussion section. Most of us play at least one other instrument enough to get by. Our reason for existence is to play for morris and most of what we play is trad British dance music, but we are having a great time learning to do that in our own way.

 In the pub afterwards we play whatever we feel like. We even go along with the guitar player doing Knock Knock Knocking and Hotel California.

I do a seventy mile  trip, mostly on small roads, each week to play with them

Start your own thing going. Advertise in the local music store?

And I totally agree with what Eshed said. Just because a teacher plays a particular style, doesn't mean you can't take what they teach and use it in your playing, or benefit from their expertise and experience.  At your stage you don't need "press this button and it will make this sound", what you need is critical feedback, expansion of technique and repertoire   and experience of working with other musicians and that's the best fun.

FWIW, I don't do Skype either, but those I know who do seem to find it pretty easy.

[Tone Dumb Greg]

...And making mistakes?  John Kirkpatrick,  one of the best musicians I know, regularly makes mistakes in public performances.  They have become part of his style.

And mine. His are classier, though.

[Randal Scott]

I believe I once was 9/10s of the way of purchasing a GCB (IIRC) box from you*, Grape Ape, in my own quest for a foundation upon which i could sustain a career with melodeon.  I can attest that finding a niche on the instrument can be a laborious process filled with adventure.

I affirm the thinking of a cognitive, aesthetic approach - a strategy/technique to enable entering a(n) heuristic that will help you steer a course.  I went through, or rather, I should say still going through - relationship with boxes that, to a high degree lately especially, involve an impetuous zest and nearly rabid compulsion.

*Still occasionally muse, "(mmm...that would have been the ticket!)"   

[nigelr]

The thing is, even after six years, I often make mistakes some of which still derail me completely, and I still fall apart when playing in front of strangers.  I also almost never use right hand chords, and I feel that I could do more with the basses.  I also still do not feel confident except when I play by myself.

Do you have access to a local morris side or dance group?  If so, I would recommend going along and seeing if they could use an extra musician.  My playing has certainly benefitted from playing for dance - it teaches you skills such as carrying on regardless if you make a mistake (you don't have any choice but to continue), playing in public in front of strangers, keeping a solid steady rhythm etc. Also, you get such a buzz when it all comes together and "works" with everyone in unison.  Could be worth a try. 

Oh, and lessons are well worth it.  Once I started lessons with Mel Biggs, things really started to come together and make sense.

[Chris Rayner]

Do you have access to a local morris side or dance group?  If so, I would recommend going along and seeing if they could use an extra musician.  My playing has certainly benefitted from playing for dance - it teaches you skills such as carrying on regardless if you make a mistake (you don't have any choice but to continue), playing in public in front of strangers, keeping a solid steady rhythm etc. Also, you get such a buzz when it all comes together and "works" with everyone in unison.  Could be worth a try. 

Oh, and lessons are well worth it.  Once I started lessons with Mel Biggs, things really started to come together and make sense.

I second this.  I was an isolated melodeonist self-taught to the point of incurable row-crossing and sundry other non-canonical eccentricities.  Then I associated myself with a local Morris side.  Fortunately I am not their only musician as I am, by some margin, the least competent.  Fortunately they are kind and generous in their appreciation of my efforts.  I have found that I still have some ability to learn even having become a septuagenarian.😱

[Squeaky Pete]

Playing with someone else gives you a completely different take and you suddenly realise that your (to you) terrible stumble is totally insignificant.
A smile and it's behind you. Unless you do the same next time through, forget it.

[Gary P Chapin]

This may sound obvious, but try it.

You aren't marrying the woman. If it doesn't work out, you learned something. If it does, you learned something else.

Plateaus can feel like such a drag, but so often, when I think I need some sort of linear improvement to *get better* ... what I really need is something to shake me up and attract my fascination.

[Winston Smith]

"what I really need is something to shake me up and attract my fascination."

Surely, this is the key to learning?

[Tone Dumb Greg]

"what I really need is something to shake me up and attract my fascination."

Surely, this is the key to learning?

When I was doing teacher training it was called "engagement".

[Tiposx]

If you can - I would grab hold of the customer who likes polkas - assuming he plays an instrument of some kind - even drums. If he will play with you then you will both benefit from it whatever music you play.