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Author Topic: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World  (Read 5748 times)

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Clive Williams

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Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
« on: March 01, 2019, 06:21:23 AM »

Well, that's one of the more comprehensive victories we've seen in a long time. As suggested by Arty,  “Origin of the World”  by Dave Shepherd...here played by Paul Young in B minor on a D/G Pokerwork https://youtu.be/2M95cuhjKtA

Here's some E minor ABC (thanks Greg) which it's playable in too (and probably a bit easier)

Code: [Select]
X:1
T:The Origin Of The World
R:mazurka
M:3/4
L:1/8
K:Emin
|: Bc BA FG | E2-EEFG | Ac cc BA | B2-BB BA |
Bc BA FG | E2-EE FG | CE GC EG | F2 FF GF |
EC A,C EC | D2 DB, G,B, | EC G,C EC | D2 D2 EF |
G2 GA-AB | B2-BA GA | AA AG ED | E2 E4 :|
|: E2 EB, EF | G2 GF GB | A2 AB-BA | D4 D2 |
E2 EB, EF | G2 GF GB | A2 AB-BA | DE GA BA |
ec AE CA, | dBG DB,G, | cG EC G,E, | F,A, DF AF |
G2 GA-AB | B2 BA GA | AA AG ED | E2 E4 :|

and the B minor version is

Code: [Select]
X:1
T:The Origin Of The World
R:mazurka
M:3/4
L:1/8
K:Bmin
|: fg fe cd | B2-BBcd | eg gg fe | f2-ff fe |
fg fe cd | B2-BB cd | GB dG Bd | c2 cc dc |
BG EG BG | A2 AF DF | BG DG BG | A2 A2 Bc |
d2 de-ef | f2-fe de | ee ed BA | B2 B4 :|
|: B2 BF Bc | d2 dc df | e2 ef-fe | A4 A2 |
B2 BF Bc | d2 dc df | e2 ef-fe | AB de fe |
bg eB GE | afd AFD | gd BG DB, | CE Ac ec |
d2 de-ef | f2 fe de | ee ed BA | B2 B4 :|

Happy playing! Not played this one myself, so got some learning to do!

Hugh Taylor

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Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2019, 09:55:07 AM »

A great tune, but following my recent thread on quavers grouped in 2's or 3's, I would welcome some definitive abc rather than peoples transcriptions from other peoples playing. Is it possible for Clive to ask Dave for his music in Gm?
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Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2019, 11:45:03 AM »

A great tune, but following my recent thread on quavers grouped in 2's or 3's, I would welcome some definitive abc rather than peoples transcriptions from other peoples playing. Is it possible for Clive to ask Dave for his music in Gm?

This is the Gm version that I found saved on my harddrive:

Code: [Select]
X: 1
T: The Origin Of The World
R: mazurka
M: 3/4
L: 1/8
K: Gmin
|: de dc AB | G2-GGAB | ce ee dc | d2-dd dc |
de dc AB | G2-GG AB | EG BE GB | A2 AA BA |
GE CE GE | F2 FD B,D | GE B,E GE | F2 F2 GA |
B2 Bc-cd | d2-dc Bc | cc cB GF | G2 G4 :|
|: G2 GD GA | B2 BA Bd | c2 cd-dc | F4 F2 |
G2 GD GA | B2 BA Bd | c2 cd-dc | FG Bc dc |
ge cG EC | fdB FDB, | eB GE B,G, | A,C FA cA |
B2 Bc-cd | d2 dc Bc | cc cB GF | G2 G4 :|

Mind you, I have no idea whether or not this is any different than the versions posted by Clive and I'm currently too lazy to transpose and compare note by note. ;)
Maybe it helps you still.
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Clive Williams

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Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2019, 11:59:01 AM »

A great tune, but following my recent thread on quavers grouped in 2's or 3's, I would welcome some definitive abc rather than peoples transcriptions from other peoples playing. Is it possible for Clive to ask Dave for his music in Gm?

I expect Dave's definitive version will be in one of his Blowzabella tune books, New Tunes for Dancing most likely.

Hugh Taylor

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Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2019, 12:04:41 PM »

I expect Dave's definitive version will be in one of his Blowzabella tune books, New Tunes for Dancing most likely.

No it isn't Clive as I've already looked in there, but I think Julian S said that it was in their 'More Scores' book which I don't have.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2019, 01:15:46 PM »

I expect Dave's definitive version will be in one of his Blowzabella tune books, New Tunes for Dancing most likely.

No it isn't Clive as I've already looked in there, but I think Julian S said that it was in their 'More Scores' book which I don't have.

pdf is only £5, hard copy £12

http://blowzabella.co.uk/shop#
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Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2019, 05:36:48 PM »

pdf is only £5, hard copy £12


I can't seem to find how to buy a pdf copy.
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Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2019, 05:42:04 PM »

...but I think Julian S said that it was in their 'More Scores' book which I don't have.

It is indeed. Page 30. Looking at it now - which doubtless I will regret and go scuttling back to the Em version.
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Gena Crisman

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Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2019, 06:03:50 PM »

I can't seem to find how to buy a pdf copy.

The link to do so is actually directly on the linked shop webpage, just under the 'more scores' pictures- just keep scrolling down, should be there on the right. Then scroll back up if it doesn't and handle checking out your cart, which it will show at the top. Worked for me, etc.

I can add, if it helps, that none of the notes are grouped in any 'special' ways - it's all pairs of quavers at most Also, none of the chords as written straddle a beat, even if that seems to be what's happening in performance.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 06:27:43 PM by Gena Crisman »
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playandteach

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Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2019, 07:08:33 PM »

Yet again, I'm not happy with what I'm doing with the left hand. I can play it, but it either dominates the tune, or is plain and unwieldy at the same time. Maybe it's time for a lesson or two. Or a new box. Or both.
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Hugh Taylor

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Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2019, 07:46:35 PM »

Thanks Gena, I have it now.
The bar that I was asking about - B10 - is scored as 3 pairs of 2 quavers, the same as the others, so I've no idea where the 2 pairs of three quavers came from.
I think its important to always go back to the original source of a tune wherever possible, trad or not, before deciding how you're going to play it. The problem with The Session.org and other sites is that people transcribe what they think is being played, and often important nuances get lost. 'William Taylors Table Top Hornpipe' is a classic example.
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Gena Crisman

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Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2019, 11:00:17 PM »

Yet again, I'm not happy with what I'm doing with the left hand. I can play it, but it either dominates the tune, or is plain and unwieldy at the same time. Maybe it's time for a lesson or two. Or a new box. Or both.

What options do you have on your bass end? The main reason I went the extra mile to fit not just a 3rds stop but also a low fundamental stop to my Black Pearl was to make it much better behaved for block chords. Do you know if your box has big bass reeds? Maybe there's harmless way to silence them for a bit to see if you like that better.

Also,

Having transposed Blowz's book copy to Bm, I can say that if you were to just copy the way Paul Young plays it, or follow the posted ABCs, you won't have been steered far wrong.

Also, dear viewer, you might wonder why all us DG players are talking about playing it in Bm. Bm is perhaps a bit of an unusual key for DG players to play in, but it's a lot of fun (to me, at least!) to figure out how the box works when played like this. Bm is the relative minor of D major, meaning it's made out of all the same notes that can be found on your D row, the outside row. Origin of the World is in G natural minor originally, which can be a bit of an ask, even for a 2.5 row DG box, as they need to be set up for it. We're left with transposing options of Am, Em and Bm as being the most likely to be comfortable to play for us.

For a 2 row player, Am can be written off because it's going to want a lot of F natural notes / chords we normally don't have, as A natural minor is actually the relative minor of C major - a row we don't really have, leaving the options of Em and Bm - the relative minor keys of G and D. However, if you have a 2.5 row 'super' DG layout, with A/G chord reversals and an F chord, with a low F natural and C natural note, A minor may be a good transposition for you to pick!

In the case of this tune, there are several long arpeggios - especially in the B section. If we wanted to play in E min, we would either have to have a low G scale and dodge a really low E note (and play a G chord instead of an Em chord it's a C chord, so nbd), or, be willing to play all the very way up at the top of the box - it's either too high or too low. Choosing Bm however makes the tune sit more centrally, with it only going as low as one avoidable low B note (the same part of the tune you avoid when playing low in Em) and hits upper octave b at its highest - this means it's playable on even a bog standard pokerwork, as Paul Young demonstrates in Clive's youtube link in the first post, and doesn't end up too squeaky. In terms of chords, Bm is sort of a strange key to play in because you actually can't make a F#m out of anything on your left hand side. F#m is the v chord for Bm, which being part of the 3 chord trick, you'd expect it to be pretty important, but, turns out, it's not as big a deal for minor tunes. Case in point, the (as written) chord accompaniment of this tune never actually asks for a v chord, so, not having F#m doesn't actually compromise the accompaniment.

So, in theory, playing it in Bm may be the 'best' compromise for us DG players. But, if you've never done it before, it can be quite the finger puzzle. While all the notes are on the D row, in order to accompany yourself you will find you have to cross row quite a bit. For example, the B note on your D row is on the draw, but your Bm chord (or Bm7 without a 3rd stop) is only on the press, and the next note in the scale, C#, is obviously only on the D row so you have to cross row right away for that. You'll find yourself moving from row to row a lot to find harmony. The A chord and Em chord are your tension chords in this scale, so, you'll be playing A major under pull As on your G row and pull C#s of your D row, and E minor under pull Bs on your D row but swapping over again so you can use a push G major under a B on your G row. There's really very little static fingering, as if you want to change the chord, you may have to play that section in an entirely different way.

Best of luck!

edit - This (wonderful) performance by Paul Young and Sarah Loughran that was linked in the voting thread is being played in Am on Paul's 2.5 row DG, if that wets anyone's appetite. Well, I assume it's in Am, it's being played as if it was in Am on a DG. Perhaps this is how Andy Cutting plays it, but using a CF.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 05:09:12 AM by Gena Crisman »
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2019, 11:52:40 PM »

Thanks Gena, I have it now.
The bar that I was asking about - B10 - is scored as 3 pairs of 2 quavers, the same as the others, so I've no idea where the 2 pairs of three quavers came from.
I think its important to always go back to the original source of a tune wherever possible, trad or not, before deciding how you're going to play it. The problem with The Session.org and other sites is that people transcribe what they think is being played, and often important nuances get lost. 'William Taylors Table Top Hornpipe' is a classic example.

I would still advise that the only to play bar 10 correctly (and bars 9 and 11, come to that) is to listen to how it is played by by Dave Shepherd. The phrasing is very distinctive and is common to all three of those bars. To listen to his playing is the best way to go back to the source, not to consult transcriptions (which doesn't mean they are not useful in other ways).

Or, is that what you meant?
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Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2019, 12:07:19 AM »

What options do you have on your bass end? The main reason I went the extra mile to fit not just a 3rds stop but also a low fundamental stop to my Black Pearl was to make it much better behaved for block chords.

Especially taking the thirds out, because I find I can often use the "chord " (now bare 5ths) buttons by themselves to accompany a tune all the way through, then add the bass notes next time which brings a huge and satisfying thickening of texture. Three note chords by themselves don't always work as well.

Quote
F#m is the v chord for Bm, which being part of the 3 chord trick, you'd expect it to be pretty important, but, turns out, it's not as big a deal for minor tunes.
... because these are modal (Aeolian or Dorian) minor tunes, which don't usually fit the standard I-IV-V pattern.
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Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2019, 12:11:20 AM »

I think the issue of beaming quavers is not one to lose sleep over. Every individual can decide where to place accents. The only right reason for beaming in 2 sets of 3 is if the harmony lines up that way. Even then it could be a syncopation (that's not the real word for it, but it's one that I think we all understand) rather than a hemiola (which of course is not a word known by all, but just means an implied passing change of metre).
All of which can be summed up as, do whatever feels right, or quirky as you see fit.
I think the most likely reason for the beaming choice is that 'oh, look we've got the same 3 notes in a different octave, why don't we reflect that in the notation'.
Looking forward to learning this, but still unhappy with my left hand playing.
Good month ahead.
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Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2019, 12:16:56 AM »

What options do you have on your bass end? The main reason I went the extra mile to fit not just a 3rds stop but also a low fundamental stop to my Black Pearl was to make it much better behaved for block chords.

Especially taking the thirds out, because I find I can often use the "chord " (now bare 5ths) buttons by themselves to accompany a tune all the way through, then add the bass notes next time which brings a huge and satisfying thickening of texture.

Quote
F#m is the v chord for Bm, which being part of the 3 chord trick, you'd expect it to be pretty important, but, turns out, it's not as big a deal for minor tunes.
... because these are modal (Aeolian or Dorian) minor tunes, which don't usually fit the standard I-IV-V pattern.
I don't think the problem is chord choice as I'm quite happy working stuff like that out. It's much more to do with note length, bass or chord or both, regular pattern or changing pattern, and voicing  - over which I don't have much say. The  bass voice (Gena) is something I might consider. But then again you can do no wrong in my opinion at the moment.
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Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2019, 08:17:29 AM »

FWIW here is my version. I've played it in Bm following Paul Young's melodeon only video and Gena's abc - so thank you both. I played it on my Saltarelle Pastourelle III.
I'm sure some of the discussion in the thread is really interesting and useful and I'll read through it all later. But shouldn't it be in TOTM Chat?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM_N7q-2R9U
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Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2019, 09:31:39 AM »

FWIW here is my version. I've played it in Bm following Paul Young's melodeon only video and Gena's abc - so thank you both. I played it on my Saltarelle Pastourelle III.
I'm sure some of the discussion in the thread is really interesting and useful and I'll read through it all later. But shouldn't it be in TOTM Chat?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM_N7q-2R9U
Excellent. I had already dismissed Bm as being too tricky but you seem to have taken in your stride. I'm still going to try Gm on my C/F (haven't even started yet) - hopefully I'll have all the notes. Time to get going then!
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Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2019, 09:39:59 AM »

Thank you for that, E. I did have a bit of a go at playing it in Am which is the equivalent of what you'd be doing and what Andy Cutting seems to do but I found it completely impossible. I think there were notes I'm missing but even if I had 'em I think I'd have still found it impossible. I quite like Bm.
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Hugh Taylor

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Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2019, 09:58:28 AM »

Good playing Mcgrooger!

I thought that TOTM Chat was about recording techniques and the like.
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