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Author Topic: Annoying after vibration on bass note  (Read 410 times)

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Barlow

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Annoying after vibration on bass note
« on: March 13, 2019, 11:08:21 PM »

One of my bass notes has an after vibration. It doesn't ring the note, I just hear the twang of what must be the reed.

Any suggestions what might cause this and how to sort it?
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Mark Leue

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Re: Annoying after vibration on bass note
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2019, 11:39:51 PM »

I was just logging in to ask this very question. My main box, a Hohner DG, is at the Button Box getting tuned and tightened up by Bob Snope, so I'm playing my little CG Lilliput. Wow does it ever "boing" on the bass notes. I can hear it happening on the Hohner, but this is loud and goes on for quite a while.  almost as loud as the note preceding it on a few of the lowest notes!
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Annoying after vibration on bass note
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2019, 12:23:37 AM »

The largest bass reeds usually have a weighted tip which gives them considerable momentum. When you release the button, the air supply to the reed chamber is shut off but the reed tongue will inevitably keep vibrating for a second or so afterwards, which is the 'twang' which you can hear.

There is virtually nothing you can do about this, but be comforted that the twang is usually only audible to the player and not to listeners a more than a couple of metres or so away. Installing good quality leather valves with good reinforcing springs can help deaden the twang, but not stop it altogether. In any case it's most likely that such valves have already been installed on the lowest bass reeds; it is usually standard practice.

The twang sound often seems to be most audible on smaller instruments. I think in larger instruments with their bigger internal air space and other components the twang is more readily muffled.
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Steve
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Theo

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Re: Annoying after vibration on bass note
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2019, 08:21:54 AM »

The bass reed twang is always there to some extent.  Are you aware of it in normal playing?
Usually a Liliput has leather valves on the bass reeds. If the valves have been replaced with plastic that can make such noises more noticeable.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Barlow

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Re: Annoying after vibration on bass note
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2019, 10:24:21 AM »

Thanks Steve, Theo.

A tick/cross in all the boxes: Little Castagnari Lilly, D bass, plastic valves.
I am sure it will only be audible to me. I occasionally grab the instrument when sprawled out on the settee (possibly too much information there) and play it on my chest, so it is right up close. I am sure no one else sat on the settee let alone in a session would hear it. I have only just noticed it but it was giving me concern - your replies have given comfort.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Annoying after vibration on bass note
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2019, 10:31:43 AM »

Noticed exactly the same twang when I first got my pokerwork. Worried about it at first but, eventually realised it was normal, after playing a few more. It's just the way they are. No one else has ever commented on it, though they have mentioned how loud and bassy they are, so I just assumed they didn't hear it.
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Greg Smith
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Re: Annoying after vibration on bass note
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2019, 10:47:08 AM »

The phenomenon can in many cases be successfully dealt with by using stiffer valves (or rather: stiffer/broader steel springs covering the leather valves). Sometimes it doesn't take more than slightly bending the steel spring in order to increase pressure.
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folkloristmark

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Re: Annoying after vibration on bass note
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2019, 11:10:19 AM »

With the liliput just check the bass leather reeds, nearly always eventually  foul the bellows inside and then curl not operation or even there.This can happen straight away on a retuned box especially if only slightly long or flexible . This will exaggerate that boinging. Simple to replace.As will curled or missing top bass leathers on any hohner.
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Mark Taylor
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Mark Leue

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Re: Annoying after vibration on bass note
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2019, 09:29:04 PM »

I looked at my bass reeds today. Most of the leather valves are bent, curled away or missing... which to me, begs the question, is there nothing better than leather thats been proven to work here?  Does someone have a photo of valves with springs?
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Theo

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Re: Annoying after vibration on bass note
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2019, 09:42:51 PM »

Leather is very good for large valves, much quieter than plastic, but the ones in your Liliput are probably the originals and 80 or so years old, so they are ready to be retired. 
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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boxcall

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Re: Annoying after vibration on bass note
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2019, 09:54:02 PM »

Does someone have a photo of valves with springs?
This is what they look like springs with dots.

http://www.cgmmusical.co.uk/CGM_Musical_Services/Reed_Valves.html#4
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Re: Annoying after vibration on bass note
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2019, 09:00:18 PM »

On the subject of plastic vs leather valves...Carini supply bass valves (of various sizes) that are leather but with a plastic 'spring'. They are a bit more expensive than the big leather valves that need a booster spring, but they are easy and quicker to fit (if you happen to be fitting lots of em...which you do on a PA). One great thing (however) is that booster springs are adjustable. You can put a kink in them to strengthen the spring, and on occasion I have quieted noisy bass reeds by increasing the booster spring pressure, causing the valve to close more readily and (it seems to me) to dampen the after 'boing' ...
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