Topic: Building a one row four stop (Read 27875 times)

boxcall · « **Reply #40 on:** May 08, 2019, 10:48:59 PM »

Ok I’m really not doing the recycle thing, here!!

So I’m working on pallet arm ( beltuna used 2.5 mm wire rod, nothing fancy either.
What would be a good wire to use? I am messing with a coat hanger wire just to see how it bends, its about 2.2mm. The coat hanger wire has a golden coating of something? That doesn’t look bad

Also I’m working with a member on the fondo , sub fondo, and slides.
My question is do all the slides and spacers touch lightly when installed or do you use a thin spacer between them? Say like a piece of paper.
Or maybe its just all feel and the plywood is stable enough to not have a spacer for expansion.

Any one ? Please!

boxcall · « **Reply #41 on:** May 09, 2019, 06:03:57 PM »

What do you think of this method for pallets?
I cut a kerf in one piece of 3/16” poplar and glue it to another. which leaves a channel in to which the pallet arm rod slides into the pallet, I’ll add glue to fix it in place.

This is just a sample in the real setup I would stop the kerf so it doesn’t show though the end and finish sides better.

Seems like I could bend the wire pretty easy, then again I thought this building was going to be easy

Dave Praties · « **Reply #42 on:** May 10, 2019, 12:40:37 PM »

Hi Boxcall, I would be wary of using coat-hanger wire for your rods. From memory, when using such to improvise car radio aerials, the metal is quite soft and could move over time with use. I have settled on 2.5mm stainless rod, very cheap from Ebay, and a bending tool, also cheap from Ebay. Both pictured here. Slightly roughed up at the root, and epoxy glued in, they are very stable. Looking forward to seeing/hearing your finished product. Cheers, Dave

invadm · « **Reply #43 on:** May 10, 2019, 12:53:44 PM »

Quote from: boxcall on May 09, 2019, 06:03:57 PM

What do you think of this method for pallets?
I cut a kerf in one piece of 3/16” poplar and glue it to another. which leaves a channel in to which the pallet arm rod slides into the pallet, I’ll add glue to fix it in place.

This is just a sample in the real setup I would stop the kerf so it doesn’t show though the end and finish sides better.

Seems like I could bend the wire pretty easy, then again I thought this building was going to be easy

looking at the picture of the arm and pallets; how far will they lift up when you press the button down? are you going to get enough Clarence /lift so don't lose volume ? 4 voice boxes I have/ had pallet arms fitted some where in the middle of the pallets almost' Z 'shape , 1- not to lose volume, 2-avoid air leaking..they need to lift high enough to play but at the same time they need to pres down firmly not to lose any air under the pallets I'd guess.

boxcall · « **Reply #44 on:** May 10, 2019, 02:18:07 PM »

Quote from: Dave Praties on May 10, 2019, 12:40:37 PM

Hi Boxcall, I would be wary of using coat-hanger wire for your rods. From memory, when using such to improvise car radio aerials, the metal is quite soft and could move over time with use. I have settled on 2.5mm stainless rod, very cheap from Ebay, and a bending tool, also cheap from Ebay. Both pictured here. Slightly roughed up at the root, and epoxy glued in, they are very stable. Looking forward to seeing/hearing your finished product. Cheers, Dave

Thanks Dave,
I ‘m just doing a mock up with with the hanger wire to get an idea of the process, and deciding on the wire in a groove method ( Beltuna does it this way) or the more traditional or common way screwed down. I’m using extra lever pieces to do this test stuff, so no levers were harmed.
I’m not sure if I could use the bending tool, the rod bends where it exists the hole in lever on mine.

Quote from: invadm on May 10, 2019, 12:53:44 PM

Quote from: boxcall on May 09, 2019, 06:03:57 PM
What do you think of this method for pallets?
I cut a kerf in one piece of 3/16” poplar and glue it to another. which leaves a channel in to which the pallet arm rod slides into the pallet, I’ll add glue to fix it in place.

This is just a sample in the real setup I would stop the kerf so it doesn’t show though the end and finish sides better.

Seems like I could bend the wire pretty easy, then again I thought this building was going to be easy

looking at the picture of the arm and pallets; how far will they lift up when you press the button down? are you going to get enough Clarence /lift so don't lose volume ? 4 voice boxes I have/ had pallet arms fitted some where in the middle of the pallets almost' Z 'shape , 1- not to lose volume, 2-avoid air leaking..they need to lift high enough to play but at the same time they need to pres down firmly not to lose any air under the pallets I'd guess.

I’m copying the Beltuna design in the mock up, where the rod exists the lever bends downward at an angle and picks up the pallet on the end nearest the keyboard. This seems to have as much lift as any of the others I have seen. I’m not sure if all that bending equals more pallet lift or if its just the way its been done, it does look nice.
So to answer you, yes I’m thinking about lift at the back of pallet and shooting for at least what’s on the Beltuna for space under the pallet when lifted.
The reason for test run is just see what I will get for lift and stiffness

Beltuna doesn’t use springs under the keyboard but inside the keyboard under the levers, my original drawing plan had them under the KB at the base of the lever, so my keyboard is raised for springs to be installed. I have to glue a bit of felt to it and see how it looks when lifted.
I was (half) thinking of trying magnets for springs I set one up and it felt good, finding room to fit them would be a trick.

Dave Praties · « **Reply #45 on:** May 10, 2019, 02:41:16 PM »

Ah, I see. I am doing a similar thing by firstly making a mock-up rod out of soft alloy wire, checking it for fit, then reprodicing it in stainless, gluing in, and finally making minor adjustments. This way, bends near the key don't matter. All good fun! Dave

boxcall · « **Reply #46 on:** May 10, 2019, 05:14:41 PM »

Yes “good fun” but a lot of work, the fun being the results hopefully!

This project requires the rod to be set first though the lever and flattened on the end, then glue and tap in to set it. Then put in jig and bend to shape. Nice thing about this method is you don’t have to flatten the rod where it meets the pallet or buy screws, could be some down side?

mselic · « **Reply #47 on:** May 10, 2019, 06:31:49 PM »

Quote

Beltuna doesn’t use springs under the keyboard but inside the keyboard under the levers, my original drawing plan had them under the KB at the base of the lever, so my keyboard is raised for springs to be installed.

Personally, I would do as you had planned and use extension springs under the keyboard as opposed to the 'scissor' type springs that fit under the keys. The extension springs, installed on small nails on the keys and keyboard, are easy to change and to adjust, whereas doing the same on the other type of springs requires removing the axle rod and keys, etc and sometimes disassembling the entire keyboard. It's a right pain sometimes, particularly if the axle rod is sluggish to come out, and then making/replacing/installing/adjusting springs is much less straightfoward, as the springs are usually fastened to underside of the key with glue and a U-shaped staple...it's finicky, and I can't understand why this design is still used when the other way works just as well but is infinitely easier. It's the difference between a two minute job and one that could take hours...(in a worst case scenario). Just my thoughts, based on my experience...

boxcall · « **Reply #48 on:** May 10, 2019, 07:32:14 PM »

Quote from: mselic on May 10, 2019, 06:31:49 PM

Quote
Beltuna doesn’t use springs under the keyboard but inside the keyboard under the levers, my original drawing plan had them under the KB at the base of the lever, so my keyboard is raised for springs to be installed.

Personally, I would do as you had planned and use extension springs under the keyboard as opposed to the 'scissor' type springs that fit under the keys. The extension springs, installed on small nails on the keys and keyboard, are easy to change and to adjust, whereas doing the same on the other type of springs requires removing the axle rod and keys, etc and sometimes disassembling the entire keyboard. It's a right pain sometimes, particularly if the axle rod is sluggish to come out, and then making/replacing/installing/adjusting springs is much less straightfoward, as the springs are usually fastened to underside of the key with glue and a U-shaped staple...it's finicky, and I can't understand why this design is still used when the other way works just as well but is infinitely easier. It's the difference between a two minute job and one that could take hours...(in a worst case scenario). Just my thoughts, based on my experience...

So you don’t like the magnet idea?
I’ll most likely go with the springs under as planned , but I like the way the magnet felt, very much like a light spring.

mselic · « **Reply #49 on:** May 11, 2019, 02:59:19 PM »

I hadn’t noticed mention of magnets. I’m all for innovation, although I’m not sure that the use of springs in this application needs replacing with something else.

boxcall · « **Reply #50 on:** May 11, 2019, 03:17:23 PM »

Probably not , but no broken springs , squeaking... Probably best to keep it away from sensitive equipment

Anyway I would have to make space for it in the rear of keyboard, maybe this could be done?

melodeon · « **Reply #51 on:** May 18, 2019, 05:55:12 PM »

If you are looking for parts try

John Doucet Church Point La
337-684-6495

or

Greg Mouton Crawley, La
337-783-2246

boxcall · « **Reply #52 on:** May 18, 2019, 10:53:31 PM »

Thank you Jeff, I will!

I’m in parts “limbo” at the moment, I was waiting for another cajun maker to get back to me with no luck. I can find some of what I need places but not all the bits to go with it.
All part of the fun I’m sure!!

boxcall · « **Reply #53 on:** May 20, 2019, 08:11:33 PM »

Quote from: melodeon on May 18, 2019, 05:55:12 PM

If you are looking for parts try

John Doucet Church Point La
337-684-6495

or

Greg Mouton Crawley, La
337-783-2246

FYI
I got out of service for John’s number. I could try messaging his FB page.

I’m sending Mouton music an email, we shall see what’s available.

Mouton

boxcall · « **Reply #54 on:** June 18, 2019, 08:51:18 PM »

Hi
I’m working on parts with Mouton music at the moment, they have some of what I need , yay!
Also I received my fondo , slides , spacers , all fitting nicely!!

I just finished putting the inlay in.
I just need to finish drilling holes for the stops and then I’m pretty much ready to start gluing things up, I think:)

Not to start a glue topic .... but what’s best for gluing frame /plywood / spacers etc.? The stuff I’ve done so far bass box and the band of wood on finger bd. I’ve been using regular carpenters glue. ( yellow stuff).

And I’m assuming that you would glue the face plate all the way round for air tightness and strength.
Usually wood panels in a frame float or are just tacked in spots if using (plywood for the panel ) as it is more stable.
My thinking is more air tight if glued and that it’s such a small panel and ply , that you’d would glue.

What say thee?

rees · « **Reply #55 on:** June 18, 2019, 09:13:53 PM »

Yes, use ordinary wood glue and glue all the way around the fondo. When it's semi dry run a bead of glue around the inside and wipe with your finger to give extra seal.

boxcall · « **Reply #56 on:** June 18, 2019, 09:56:35 PM »

Great thanks Rees!

A fellow member Howard Mitchell help with the fondo, thanks so much !!

Picture showing the fondo and to the right slides and spaces, the middle spacers showing the closed position. Sub fondo would lay on top ( it’s under the slides in photo) , I just have it under to show slides and spacers

boxcall · « **Reply #57 on:** January 28, 2020, 09:15:49 PM »

I'm back

and still waiting for some parts (shanks for knobs mainly)but in the mean time...
I have the pallets cut and mortised for metal pallet arms and metal arms bent and fitted. Pallets need felt still which will bring the arm into the mortise.
My plan is to cover this point with an accent piece.
I also had to recut the holes in the keyboard to fit a bigger buttons being used.

bass box has the finish (rub on tung oil /urethane mix)

edit to add : what's a good adhesive for the metal pallet arms being glued to the lever?

Theo · « **Reply #58 on:** January 28, 2020, 09:40:30 PM »

Pallet arm to pallet should be fixed with something that allows the pallets to be removed, wax is traditional.

Winston Smith · « **Reply #59 on:** January 28, 2020, 09:41:59 PM »

Looking VERY nice, if I may say so?

News:

Author Topic: Building a one row four stop (Read 27875 times)