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Author Topic: Taping off just the chin end thirds on the chords...  (Read 747 times)

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Mark Leue

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Taping off just the chin end thirds on the chords...
« on: August 31, 2019, 06:45:32 PM »

Maybe it's just the  result of playing the tunes I know so far, but  I have found that the best of both worlds can be had by just taping off the third from the B chord and the A chord on my G/D box.  This leaves the full sounding major chords on G, D, and C, but allows me to play a lot of music where that B major particularly but also the A major on some tunes don't work.
I'm sure I'm not the only person who has figured this out, but if you haven't considered it, you might give it a go.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Taping off just the chin end thirds on the chords...
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2019, 06:56:05 PM »

Maybe it's just the  result of playing the tunes I know so far, but  I have found that the best of both worlds can be had by just taping off the third from the B chord and the A chord on my G/D box.  This leaves the full sounding major chords on G, D, and C, but allows me to play a lot of music where that B major particularly but also the A major on some tunes don't work.
I'm sure I'm not the only person who has figured this out, but if you haven't considered it, you might give it a go.

That's a common way of doing it. I debate with myself whether it would be more useful to flatten the third in the B chord, though. There are a (very) few occasions when B major might work, and there are people who would argue to keep the major chord but I think a "real" B minor is much more of an asset when playing in D major, B minor etc than a once in a very rare while search for crunch (that I can get by using an accidental.
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Greg Smith
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Re: Taping off just the chin end thirds on the chords...
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2019, 10:53:04 PM »

I tape the third in the Emin chord too. An Emaj chord is just as useful as a Bmin.
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Re: Taping off just the chin end thirds on the chords...
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2019, 11:52:22 PM »

Personally I don't like to tape off the thirds in the B major chord and the A major chord. They are too important.
If you want Bm, play Bm7 (push B bass with push D chord)
If you want Am, play Am7 (pull A bass with pull C chord)

Neither of those 7th chords sound as good with the thirds taped out, so keep the thirds untaped and you have the best of both worlds.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Taping off just the chin end thirds on the chords...
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2019, 11:54:34 PM »

I tape the third in the Emin chord too. An Emaj chord is just as useful as a Bmin.

If you tape off all the thirds you can play in lots of minor keys, especially D and G, sort of. I prefer to stick with the home keys, though. There is always the diatonic transposing option.
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Greg Smith
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Taping off just the chin end thirds on the chords...
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2019, 11:56:20 PM »

Personally I don't like to tape off the thirds in the B major chord and the A major chord. They are too important.
If you want Bm, play Bm7 (push B bass with push D chord)
If you want Am, play Am7 (pull A bass with pull C chord)

Neither of those 7th chords sound as good with the thirds taped out, so keep the thirds untaped and you have the best of both worlds.
I don't think Bm7  really works if you're playing in Bm.
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Greg Smith
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Re: Taping off just the chin end thirds on the chords...
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2019, 01:19:18 AM »

I don't think Bm7  really works if you're playing in Bm.
How many tunes do you play in B minor? For the very few tunes I play in B minor, Bm7 works OK for me.
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Mark Leue

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Re: Taping off just the chin end thirds on the chords...
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2019, 02:22:41 AM »

Personally I don't like to tape off the thirds in the B major chord and the A major chord. They are too important.
If you want Bm, play Bm7 (push B bass with push D chord)
If you want Am, play Am7 (pull A bass with pull C chord)

Neither of those 7th chords sound as good with the thirds taped out, so keep the thirds untaped and you have the best of both worlds.

Ill give that a try sometime.  So far I am not missing those thirds at all,  and this is simple to play.  It's certainly fast and easy to switch them.  On some boxes it sounds better than others to dispense with the thirds... I think on my Baffetti Carnival it cleans up the sound and the basses are a bit over loud sometimes anyway.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Taping off just the chin end thirds on the chords...
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2019, 08:25:33 AM »

I don't think Bm7  really works if you're playing in Bm.
How many tunes do you play in B minor? For the very few tunes I play in B minor, Bm7 works OK for me.

Not a lot, I admit, but I can't remember ever finding that a B major was essential.
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Greg Smith
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Re: Taping off just the chin end thirds on the chords...
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2019, 08:28:40 AM »

But when you do you will understand.  It will be like discovering what it’s like to add salt and vinegar to a fish supper.

As with just about all similar discussion it all depends on your repertoire.
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Re: Taping off just the chin end thirds on the chords...
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2019, 11:59:43 AM »

I've generally found that, when playing diatonically, it's mostly when the distinction is important between eg Bm7 and D, or Am7 and C, that I much prefer playing with the thirds out. Usually I only find myself in that situation when playing in something that's tonicised to one of those chords, so, something with A minor or B minor as a tonic - so, playing tunes in B minor would be an example I would agree with, but, to go all modal on everyone, B phrygian's main character chords are Bm, Am, C - playing those as Bm7 Am7 C is, I find, just not as pleasing.

When playing non diatonically, it's usually a switch up of if you want the thirds out, or want the thirds in, to most successfully sell whatever it is you're trying to pitch.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Taping off just the chin end thirds on the chords...
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2019, 12:16:27 PM »

I actually have all three options available on my three boxes.  A Saltarelle with a Bm chord and a thirds stop. A Hohner D/G with A and B thirds taped out. A Hohner C/F with Bmaj and Amaj thirds in. I sometimes feel the absence of the Bminor third when playing on the Hohners but never, once, that of the Bmajor third.

As Theo says, it's down to where you draw your repertoire and playing styles from.   Fish and chips give me indigestion :D
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Greg Smith
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Julian S

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Re: Taping off just the chin end thirds on the chords...
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2019, 12:57:08 PM »

Having gone back to using a pokerwork for morris rather than my Dino super 3 (still for sale !) which I played with thirds out, the guitarist was initially somewhat confused. All quite beyond my simple brain - I have been wondering about taping off the thirds but perhaps the guitarist should just adapt to whatever I play anyway !
(Including dischords of course... >:E)
Julian
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Taping off just the chin end thirds on the chords...
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2019, 01:17:29 PM »

I do use the B chord, I can't remember offhand where and when but I do use it.
I'm normally a 'thirds in' person and quite happily use Bm7 if I need a Bm chord and have the full fat B chord if I remember where and when I need it....
Q
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Re: Taping off just the chin end thirds on the chords...
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2019, 01:35:27 PM »

I'm using the B major chord (or E on a G/C, or A on a C/F) for 17th century music like Purcell (e.g., Hole in the Wall) and Playford or for Russian music.
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I'm playing all the wrong notes but not necessarily in the wrong order.

Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Taping off just the chin end thirds on the chords...
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2019, 02:10:40 PM »

I'm using the B major chord (or E on a G/C, or A on a C/F) for 17th century music like Purcell (e.g., Hole in the Wall) and Playford or for Russian music.

Now, my argument is confounded. I don't play any Russian music, but I do play quite a lot of Playford and Hole in the Wall is on my "to learn"  list.
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Greg Smith
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Taping off just the chin end thirds on the chords...
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2019, 02:17:28 PM »

After my post I went off for a twiddle and played 'Old Knoll's Jig' from Banquet of Boxes fame, a Playford tune and Old Knoll was the nickname of Oliver Cromwell. I realised I used Bmaj quite a bit!
To describe it as 'giving a crunch' is a good description for it's use.
Q

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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Taping off just the chin end thirds on the chords...
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2019, 02:39:02 PM »

After my post I went off for a twiddle and played 'Old Knoll's Jig' from Banquet of Boxes fame, a Playford tune and Old Knoll was the nickname of Oliver Cromwell. I realised I used Bmaj quite a bit!
To describe it as 'giving a crunch' is a good description for it's use.
Q

Is that going to be your jig for this month's theme?
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Greg Smith
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Taping off just the chin end thirds on the chords...
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2019, 02:49:33 PM »

Um.... most probably not!
It needs polishing up a lot, but it's a bonkers tune and I love bonkers tunes.
Hmmm..... mind you, you've a point there.
See how it goes!
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Taping off just the chin end thirds on the chords...
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2019, 02:55:11 PM »

Um.... most probably not!
It needs polishing up a lot, but it's a bonkers tune and I love bonkers tunes.
Hmmm..... mind you, you've a point there.
See how it goes!
Q

It's a great tune. I know it from Horslip's album, The Tain. I got pretty excited when I found it in Michael Raven's English Country Dance Tunes. To stay on topic: maybe I'll learn it on the pokerwork (I only play it on the mandolin) with the B major restored. I can't play it on the C/F because that has no accidentals (yet).
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Greg Smith
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