Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Name the tune, please!  (Read 998 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

mselic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 614
Name the tune, please!
« on: April 07, 2019, 03:21:14 AM »

Nice playing from Eamon McElholm & Johnny B. Connolly (no relation to the other father/son melodeon-playing Johnny Connollys!)  What's the name of the first tune, anyone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtGlPKPmI-Y&list=LL3bkKM0f2ppyK_XB5hC6Ntw&index=2&t=0s
Logged
4 stops: Melodie D, Beltuna G, HA114 A
Hohner Erica D/C#

Stiamh

  • Old grey C#/D pest
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2921
    • Packie Manus Byrne
Re: Name the tune, please!
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2019, 03:40:04 AM »

The title should give you a clue.  ;) It's one of many tunes known as The Blackbird aka An Londubh, this one a 32-bar hornpipe.

In case you don't know the other two are Jackie Coleman's and The Caucus (at Secaucus), a tune composed by my friend Jean Duval and named by me.  (:)
Logged
« L'enfer, c'est le doigté des autres » ~ Jean-Sol Partre

www.rogermillington.com

mselic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 614
Re: Name the tune, please!
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2019, 04:03:35 AM »

The title should give you a clue.  ;) It's one of many tunes known as The Blackbird aka An Londubh, this one a 32-bar hornpipe.

In case you don't know the other two are Jackie Coleman's and The Caucus (at Secaucus), a tune composed by my friend Jean Duval and named by me.  (:)

"Blackbird" was my first guess, but the tunes I found with that name did not match this one.  The problem is I learn all these tunes from YouTube videos but then never have a name to attach to them! I end up forgetting that I know the tune unless I jot down something to remind me...it always helps if the name attached to it means something to someone else, particularly when you look at a list of tunes that you've learned and can't remember which tune goes with the name ;)

Nice bit of trivia with the naming of the third tune.  Good to know. Thanks, Steve - hope you're doing well these days!
Logged
4 stops: Melodie D, Beltuna G, HA114 A
Hohner Erica D/C#

Stiamh

  • Old grey C#/D pest
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2921
    • Packie Manus Byrne
Re: Name the tune, please!
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2019, 04:12:07 PM »

Matt I'm doing fine, thanks! Trust the same goes for you.

I only listened to a few bars of each tune last night. I have just realised why their interpretation of the Blackbird sounded a bit off to my ears - the one-row box has no C-natural, which to me is an essential feature of the tune's character. If you look at Norbeck's first setting here you will see that the C-nats are quite prominent - they give a lovely mixolydian flavour. I play bar 7 of the B part exactly the same as bar 7 of the A part, so the C-nat asserts itself in the second part also.

So - in my view not a good one-row piece, sorry! The fakery denatures the tune too much. (:)

The Caucus (as everyone calls it nowadays) is pentatonic and so suits the one-row better.  A bit more about the origin of the tune (I think Jean has lost count of the number of CDs it has been recorded on) and its name.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 07:01:49 PM by Stiamh »
Logged
« L'enfer, c'est le doigté des autres » ~ Jean-Sol Partre

www.rogermillington.com

boxcall

  • You got to love it!!!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1273
  • Do what you love, love what you do.
Re: Name the tune, please!
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2019, 10:10:42 PM »

When I played this one for my first teacher Jack Conroy  and called it “the blackbird” , he said “no that’s the The old blackbird”. I guess that would distinguish it from the blackbird set dance.
John gannon plays a nice version, I think Johnny O’Halloran does this one to.
There are versions with no Cnat. Maybe not correct but sound good to me.
First one here
https://thesession.org/tunes/4101
Logged
Hohner 1040 C, Beltuna one row four stop D, O'Byrne Dewitt/ Baldoni bros. D/C#, Paolo soprani "pepperpot" one row D

mselic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 614
Re: Name the tune, please!
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2019, 01:47:09 PM »

I've since found several versions of the Blackbird featuring the Cnat, and it's certainly becomes a different tune at that point.  Having heard the melodeon version first, I actually like it better (sorry!).  I would almost consider them as separate tunes.

Thanks for the links, Steve.  I don't actually use notation in learning tunes, and have only ever done it by ear.  I'm sure if I sat down I could figure out the written music, but I'd still have to hear the tune to get the feel of it.  The YouTube half-speed function does wonders when you have to figure out a fast passage and can't make out all the notes.  Works for me, anyhow...
Logged
4 stops: Melodie D, Beltuna G, HA114 A
Hohner Erica D/C#

Stiamh

  • Old grey C#/D pest
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2921
    • Packie Manus Byrne
Re: Name the tune, please!
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2019, 02:43:47 PM »

I actually like it better (sorry!)
Huh! You probably like eating fish and chips without vinegar...  ;D
Logged
« L'enfer, c'est le doigté des autres » ~ Jean-Sol Partre

www.rogermillington.com

richard.fleming

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 378
Re: Name the tune, please!
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2019, 04:31:39 PM »

I actually like it better (sorry!)
Huh! You probably like eating fish and chips without vinegar...  ;D
C nat every time. And vinegar.
Logged
Old Paolo Sopranis in C#/D and D/D#

mselic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 614
Re: Name the tune, please!
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2019, 05:20:02 PM »

I actually like it better (sorry!)
Huh! You probably like eating fish and chips without vinegar...  ;D

Nope - sorry...I listened to the various versions of the tune some more, and I have to admit the Cnat does work better. I realize that I just liked the melodeon version better than some of the other renditions I heard on YouTube, but the Cnat was not the issue there. Now the C# sounds off to me! Dang...s’pose I’ll have to play it on the D/C# instead.

PS - vinegar!
Logged
4 stops: Melodie D, Beltuna G, HA114 A
Hohner Erica D/C#

smiley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 694
  • Folk music: it's not as bad as it sounds
    • a few sound clips
Re: Name the tune, please!
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2019, 11:17:15 PM »

If you like the Cnat version then try playing the tune in A(modal) on a D one-row melodeon. When David Munnelly showed me this approach he said the old melodeon players in Co Mayo weren't too fussed about which key a tune was played in. If you don't read ABC notation then copy and paste this into an ABC player and listen to the MIDI playback.

X:1
T:The Blackbird
R:hornpipe
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:Amix
ED|CB,CE DCA,E|AB cB A=GEC|D2DC DCA,B,|CDEC DFED|!
CB,CE DCA,E|AB cB A=GEC|EA=GE DFED|C2A,2 A,2:|!
|: cd|edce dcB2|A2 AB cAE2|edce dcBA|cedc B2 cd|!
ecdB cAB2|~A2AB cA E>D|EA=GE DFED|C2A,2 A,2:|!
Logged

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2090
  • DG Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, old CF Hohner
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Name the tune, please!
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2019, 11:33:19 PM »

I'm sorry to butt in, but I've got to ask: I don't understand the references to playing a tune featuring C natural on a D row instrument. What am I missing?
Logged
Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

Jesse Smith

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 365
  • Buffalo, NY, USA
Re: Name the tune, please!
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2019, 11:55:35 PM »

I'm sorry to butt in, but I've got to ask: I don't understand the references to playing a tune featuring C natural on a D row instrument. What am I missing?

D major with a C natural is D mixolydian. On a D one row, you can play in A mixolydian (F#, C#, and G natural instead of the G# normally present in A major).
Logged
Hohner Pokerwork D/G, Hohner one row four stop in C, Hohner Pressed Wood C/F.

richard.fleming

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 378
Re: Name the tune, please!
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2019, 07:14:51 AM »

I'm sorry to butt in, but I've got to ask: I don't understand the references to playing a tune featuring C natural on a D row instrument. What am I missing?
On a  D melodeon you can't play it with the C natural so you have to change the tune, some might say for the worse, by substituting a C#.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2019, 07:16:44 AM by richard.fleming »
Logged
Old Paolo Sopranis in C#/D and D/D#

mselic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 614
Re: Name the tune, please!
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2019, 03:40:14 AM »

OK, folks - how about the third tune in this set?  Would you consider it a jig or a slide?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMPvnyoSDyM
Logged
4 stops: Melodie D, Beltuna G, HA114 A
Hohner Erica D/C#

Stiamh

  • Old grey C#/D pest
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2921
    • Packie Manus Byrne
Re: Name the tune, please!
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2019, 03:54:58 AM »

It's a jig. Were you asking the name as well? "My Darling Asleep".
Logged
« L'enfer, c'est le doigté des autres » ~ Jean-Sol Partre

www.rogermillington.com

mselic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 614
Re: Name the tune, please!
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2019, 09:39:18 PM »

Thanks, Steve - I was in fact asking for the name as well, although I realize now that it wasn’t clear in the way I worded the question.

This begs another question, and perhaps worthy of another thread altogether; how to distinguish a jig from a slide? I’ve studied up on this, but still sometimes find myself surprised when I discover a tune I thought was one thing turns out to be another...
Logged
4 stops: Melodie D, Beltuna G, HA114 A
Hohner Erica D/C#

Stiamh

  • Old grey C#/D pest
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2921
    • Packie Manus Byrne
Re: Name the tune, please!
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2019, 09:58:23 PM »

This begs another question, and perhaps worthy of another thread altogether; how to distinguish a jig from a slide?

As in many areas of human experience, there is doubtless some overlap between categories (:) No doubt you have heard the explanation that slides have a greater predominance of "dum-tee" note patterns where double jigs are mainly made up of "dum-ti-ti" note groups, i.e. crotchet/quaver (quarter-note/eighth-note) combinations as opposed to three quavers (three eighth notes). This is a guide.

Another distinction is that slides are often written in 12/8 rather than 6/8, and you can certainly play them that way: this is what I think of as "the Chieftains way" of playing slides, with two strong beats in a bar of 12/8. But Jackie Daly insists that to play slides for dancing in Sliabh Luachra you have to have twice as many strong beats as that, as you will hear from his foot tapping when playing slides. So I wonder whether they shouldn't be written as 6/8 systematically - Sliabh Luachra slides at any rate!

As an example of overlap, the tune known as "The Old Favourite" is supposed to be a jig, but I find it works very well as a slide, and we regularly slip it into a set of slides when playing for a polka set. I would find "My Darling Asleep" too, er, lumpy to use for a slide though.   :|glug
Logged
« L'enfer, c'est le doigté des autres » ~ Jean-Sol Partre

www.rogermillington.com

Fred

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 431
  • Loffet Graet e Breizh D/G and various Hohners
Re: Name the tune, please!
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2019, 11:04:06 PM »

we regularly slip it into a set of slides

I've nothing to contribute to this topic and thus I normally don't participate in discussions of this kind...
But I have to comment that the thought of slipping into a set of slides made me smile a bit.
Logged

Stiamh

  • Old grey C#/D pest
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2921
    • Packie Manus Byrne
Re: Name the tune, please!
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2019, 03:22:26 AM »

we regularly slip it into a set of slides

I've nothing to contribute to this topic and thus I normally don't participate in discussions of this kind...
But I have to comment that the thought of slipping into a set of slides made me smile a bit.

(:)
Logged
« L'enfer, c'est le doigté des autres » ~ Jean-Sol Partre

www.rogermillington.com
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.