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Author Topic: Hohner 490 Project - Fretwork Grille - Reverse Engineering  (Read 3258 times)

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Peadar

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Hohner 490 Project - Fretwork Grille - Reverse Engineering
« on: April 18, 2019, 07:11:24 AM »

Morning All,

Collated information indicates that my old (putative 1908) Hohner is an "Italian Model" No.490

The Fretwork design may be a generic one copied from a wood carvers text book - I have an example on one of my (probably) Klingenthal boxes.

Does anyone have a Hohner 490 / 491 / 460 /461 (all of which appear to have had the same scroll work ) with the grille?

A square on photo of any of these grilles would be a very useful check before I set about making a new grille for this project.
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invadm

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Re: Hohner 490 Project - Fretwork Grille - Reverse Engineering
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2019, 12:34:27 PM »

is it one of this you need to see?
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Peadar

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Re: Hohner 490 Project - Fretwork Grille - Reverse Engineering
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2019, 07:44:07 PM »

I think the grille I am looking for is less decorated.

See images -
1. Stock photo of a 1908-10 Hohner -fittings and bellows appear to match mine as does the M HOHNER lettering. Only difference is this is a 2 bass model with black (or red?) key tops.
2. Photo of my 490 - The grille sitting in place is from a 2 row C/C# branded "Fitzroy Band", but of unknown make. The scroll work panel appears to match that of the 2 bass Hohner - Though the Hohner version also has sound holes above each key and arched portals around each individual key lever
3. The Fitzroy band grille. This has a quadrafoil in the centre and three frond motifs on each side.

The pattern on the Fitzroy band grille appears to match that on the Hohner photographed and also the fretwork pattern on the 490 illustrated in the 1929 Hohner catalogue/tutor in the information section of the forum, though by that date the sound holes and key portals appear to have gone.
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invadm

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Re: Hohner 490 Project - Fretwork Grille - Reverse Engineering
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2019, 07:54:34 PM »

I have this model with out the wide bellow frame ,unfortunately  it too came with broken grill..I will have a look at my other single rows I am sure I have something close to this.   
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invadm

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Re: Hohner 490 Project - Fretwork Grille - Reverse Engineering
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2019, 08:07:13 PM »

Hohner is the same model,but middle of the grill was missing when I got it.
east German single row for your reference...if you make new grill for Hohner make 2  ;D I'll have one of them  (:)
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: Hohner 490 Project - Fretwork Grille - Reverse Engineering
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2019, 08:26:16 PM »

I have this, what are you actually wanting?

SJ
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: Hohner Club Modell 1. Bb/Eb, de-clubbed : Early Hohner Pressed Wood A/D : 1930's Varnished wood G/C:  Hohner Erika C/F: Bandoneon tuned D/G Pressed wood: Koch F/Bb; G/C Pre Corso

Peadar

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Re: Hohner 490 Project - Fretwork Grille - Reverse Engineering
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2019, 11:45:33 PM »

I am trying to get as close as possible to the grille shown in this photo.

Internet keeps falling over tonight..that probably means a coal lorry has over-run the verge somewhere in the locality.

« Last Edit: April 18, 2019, 11:47:41 PM by Peadar »
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Peadar

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Re: Hohner 490 Project - Fretwork Grille - Reverse Engineering
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2019, 11:58:55 PM »

Quote
..if you make new grill for Hohner make 2
No problem. I am thinking of laser cutting which gives a burnt finish rather than a sawn finish at the reveals. I will pm you when I know the cost.

Referring to your S1.jpg

Is the cut out panel aprox 186 x 60mm?

And what size are the round sound holes above the individual keys?

« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 12:24:53 AM by Peadar »
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: Hohner 490 Project - Fretwork Grille - Reverse Engineering
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2019, 08:37:22 AM »

I am trying to get as close as possible to the grille shown in this photo.

Internet keeps falling over tonight..that probably means a coal lorry has over-run the verge somewhere in the locality.
Aye well mine is exactly the same by the look of it, apart from the curly edge ;)

SJ
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: Hohner Club Modell 1. Bb/Eb, de-clubbed : Early Hohner Pressed Wood A/D : 1930's Varnished wood G/C:  Hohner Erika C/F: Bandoneon tuned D/G Pressed wood: Koch F/Bb; G/C Pre Corso

invadm

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Re: Hohner 490 Project - Fretwork Grille - Reverse Engineering
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2019, 05:41:30 PM »

S1 jpeg; middle cut out measures;19.5cm X6.5 cm I guess original could be smaller,it looks like edges sanded down a bit.
Holes diameter 1.2cm and looks original
and there is a cut away slot at the key board side measures 5mm (half a CM)     
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Hohner 490 Project - Fretwork Grille - Reverse Engineering
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2019, 06:20:48 PM »

I have this if it is of interest, could scan the grille if that would help.

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Squeezing on the Isle of Oxney, UK
Primo (Serenellini) D/G
Isis D/G
Hohner B/E, G/C, C/F, Bb/Eb G/C/F
Liliputs D/G (G scale), C/F, Bb/Eb, Albrecht Custom D/G (G scale)

Peadar

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Re: Hohner 490 Project - Fretwork Grille - Reverse Engineering
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2019, 10:35:10 PM »

I have now had the parallel ruler out on the photo and done some scaling. The faceplate/grille of the 490 is approximately 110mm high- but the fretwork panel is only about 60mm high, whereas on Pete's and  Sir John's the fretwork is full height of the cover. Sir John appears to have a vertical stretch version of the design on the 490. Pete's is a different fretwork pattern altogether and I haven't been able to identify it with any of the illustrations in How to Play a Hohner/1929 catalogue.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 10:45:44 PM by Peadar »
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Hohner 490 Project - Fretwork Grille - Reverse Engineering
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2019, 11:25:41 PM »

Pete's is a different fretwork pattern altogether and I haven't been able to identify it with any of the illustrations in How to Play a Hohner/1929 catalogue.

My box may be earlier, in the 1900-1920 era, the fretwork is quite crude and the timber is of pretty poor quality.
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Squeezing on the Isle of Oxney, UK
Primo (Serenellini) D/G
Isis D/G
Hohner B/E, G/C, C/F, Bb/Eb G/C/F
Liliputs D/G (G scale), C/F, Bb/Eb, Albrecht Custom D/G (G scale)

Peadar

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Re: Hohner 490 Project - Fretwork Grille - Reverse Engineering
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2019, 11:35:46 PM »

Could well be, but I get the impression that the mahogany finish (of yours) was upmarket of the ebonised finish (to mine).
Does yours have steel or brass reeds? (the difference between a 490 and a 491 was that the 491 had steel reeds).

It would be interesting to see the makers brand lettering on your box.

As I understand it Hohner started making accordeons in 1903. There are boxes which can be dated fairly accurately to 1904/5 - by their marking as prize winning at the St. Louis(?) Exhibition of 1904. Hohners won another prize at a trade exhibition in Capetown in (I think) 1905 ... Boxes lettered in the same (recognisably turn of the century) font carrying references to both exhibitions may be circa 1906/07.  Obviously these boxes were for the Anglophone market.
Jungenstil lettering appears to have been in use from 1908-1910  but for how long after I have no idea.
Others with wider historical knowledge of Hohner products may tell more.....

« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 09:48:11 AM by Peadar »
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invadm

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Re: Hohner 490 Project - Fretwork Grille - Reverse Engineering
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2019, 02:37:51 PM »

Quote
..if you make new grill for Hohner make 2
No problem. I am thinking of laser cutting which gives a burnt finish rather than a sawn finish at the reveals. I will pm you when I know the cost.

for this very same reason I've found a local printing/laser cutting company & visited them..some laser cut grill and some engraving I needed,turned out cutting or engraving cost isn't so bad but initial drawing of the design in their vector format cost more than the job it self,it's a one off charge and can be used as many time as you need for a grill it was £30 + 10-15 for the actual job,wasn't cost effective for me,when you can buy a new grill for £25 so I gave up on the idea...I've bought my self a scroll saw intending to make my own but never had a change to use it, not yet anyways  (:)
replacement Keyboard facing for 2 row -where the holes are- is another thing I keep wandering for laser cutting..I have 3-4 broken damaged set I am sure there many more out there needs just the face replaced..         
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Peadar

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Re: Hohner 490 Project - Fretwork Grille - Reverse Engineering
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2019, 05:31:37 PM »

Keyboard facing for a two row...is that essentially a rectangular piece of 3mm ply with 19 oval holes precision cut ?

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invadm

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Re: Hohner 490 Project - Fretwork Grille - Reverse Engineering
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2019, 05:49:31 PM »

yes, it is kind of what I mean, but not sure rectangle would work, I think shape needs to be identical so it will fit properly, even small error will be enough to button to stick down or not work properly.
copy of the same shape should work fine, think of it like a lid or cover to just glue on top of the broken part to mask..even 1.5/2 mm thickness will be fine..Hohner used celluloid top cover on their club models 1/1.5mm  thick and survived all this years  ;)   11+ 10 hole on most standard model 21 hole in total.       
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Peadar

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Re: Hohner 490 Project - Fretwork Grille - Reverse Engineering
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2019, 07:28:29 PM »

Polycarbonate sheets can easily be cut with a laser cutter - I was going for plywood to replace a wooden screen- quite possibly a plywood screen even in the earliest models.
Are you talking about an overlay for damaged plastic keyboards which are manufactured as a single moulding? I am not familar with earlier types of covered keyboard, but thought they had a rectangular cover plate over the key levers, with oval holes for the buttons.
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invadm

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Re: Hohner 490 Project - Fretwork Grille - Reverse Engineering
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2019, 10:04:27 PM »

I should have mention,wooden key board mainly for older Hohners, I know replacements parts are available&cheap but it'll be nice to save the older ones.  photo-key1 shows better what I am trying to say  (:)
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Peadar

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Re: Hohner 490 Project - Fretwork Grille - Reverse Engineering
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2019, 11:15:14 PM »

The Geometry of those should not be too difficult to reproduce.

The difficulty with the grille I am wanting to reproduce is that it incorporates spiral curve forms which are difficult to draught with the only CAD package available to me.
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