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Author Topic: Women box players in Ireland - TG4 programme  (Read 1522 times)

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Stiamh

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Re: Women box players in Ireland - TG4 program
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2019, 12:38:58 PM »

Also noticeable is the total lack of bass. These are all top players, and they don't play bass at all on this video - not even Sharon Shannon. I suspect that if the box had been invented in Ireland it wouldn't have had basses at all, but historically those Germans and Italians who built them liked a bit of oompah and insisted on building boxes with basses. Maybe if they'd been invented by the Irish they could have had regulators like the uillean pipes. It has always seemed to me that imitating the regulators on the box might be interesting, but I don't know enough musical theory to know how that would be done. Maybe Stiamh can help out here?

Actually Maeve Begley (if she will forgive me for writing her name in English) was using the basses, audibly. But the contorted left-hand position of a couple of others seems to indicate that they never normally think of touching the bass buttons.

The way most pipers have their regulator keys arranged is so that they can play a chord of three notes at once with the bottom-hand wrist. When playing slow airs they also typically pick out one or two individual notes with the fingers of the free bottom hand to harmonize with notes on the chanter that don't require the bottom hand.

So I would say a normal bass setup allows box players to use the basses very much like the regulators without any special arrangements other than closing off the thirds. Play occasional chords sporadically, pick out individual bass notes in airs, or do constant vamping à la Leo Rowsome, it's all there.

No doubt one could devise a button arrangement of say 18 basses that would allow you to duplicate some particular piper's regulator setup exactly, but why would you bother... as the PA player in the programme said, she had to accept that "this is my instrument, it's not a [button accordion], I have to love it for what it is"...  :|glug

Edited to add: the bisonoric action of a standard bass setup is one key difference between box basses and pipe regulators. So the first requirement in arranging accordion basses to be able to mimic regulator playing seriously would be to have them all unisonoric. I learned the Wounded Hussar decades ago, on fiddle, from the playing of Séamus Ennis, whose setting is different from the standard version played by accordionists (Jackie Daly, Tony MacMahon et al.). There's a spot where Ennis plays a low C natural on the regulators against an A on the chanter. You can do this on fiddle, provided you play the A on the D string, but you can't do it on a C#/D box because A is on the push and Cs are on the pull. When I got my 2½-row Serenellini (which had an extra A on the pull) I got great satisfaction from being able to duplicate this Ennis-ism exactly. But since the only people who would understand what I was doing would be pipers who happened to be very familiar with Ennis' recorded version and with the layout of C#/D boxes, the potential for appreciation of my clever-dickery was somewhat limited...  ;)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2019, 12:58:21 PM by Stiamh »
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Winston Smith

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Re: Women box players in Ireland - TG4 program
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2019, 02:29:14 PM »

"But since the only people who would understand what I was doing would be pipers who happened to be very familiar with Ennis' recorded version and with the layout of C#/D boxes, the potential for appreciation of my clever-dickery was somewhat limited..."

So what? Even if the majority don't "get it", surely the pleasure it brought you was sufficient? Knowing that you've achieved something special, is worth more than all the adulation of the "masses"! (IMO, of course.)
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richard.fleming

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Re: Women box players in Ireland - TG4 program
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2019, 04:23:42 PM »

If you will forgive me, Steve, it's not that difficult.. (:)
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Alan Pittwood

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Re: Women box players in Ireland - TG4 program
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2019, 04:39:02 PM »

"But since the only people who would understand what I was doing would be pipers who happened to be very familiar with Ennis' recorded version and with the layout of C#/D boxes, the potential for appreciation of my clever-dickery was somewhat limited..."


No.   Anyone and everyone that hears your performance will have heard that particular sound at that moment and will have responded to it.   There is no need for them to be familiar with uilleann pipes recordings and/or the technical aspects of a C#/D accordion.

And as for "clever-dickery", you have already quoted Deirdre Chawke (the piano accordion player in the band Líadan) "this is my instrument, it's not a [button accordion], I have to love it for what it is"...   You play an instrument that allows of that sound love it for what it is.
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Alan Pittwood

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Re: Women box players in Ireland - TG4 program
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2019, 05:04:07 PM »

Quote
Also noticeable is the total lack of bass. These are all top players, and they don't play bass at all on this video - not even Sharon Shannon.

The nine musical examples are played by:

Brighid Ní Ghadhra      two-row Hohner Double Ray    no basses used     solo
Deírdre Chawke          piano accordion                      basses used          six-piece group Líadan
Edel Ní Churraoin        two-row                                 no basses used      duet with Darragh Murphy, guitar
Josephine Marsh         two-row                                 no basses used     quartet with mandolin, guitar and double bass
Josephine Marsh         two-row                                 no basses used     solo
Méabh Ní Bheaglaoich two-row                                 no basses             duet with Matt Griffin, guitar
Mary Staunton            one-row  four-stop melodeon  no basses used      duet with Alec Finn bouzouki
Mary Staunton            two-row                                no basses used      duet with Alec Finn, bouzouki
Sharon Shannon         two-row                                no basses used      quartet with mandolin, guitar double bass

This shows, as a matter of fact, that basses were not used when the performer was playing with other musicians.   This is not surprising when the others are providing rhythm and harmony, possibly beyond the limited bass/chords of the particular accordion.   Deírdre Chawke's piano accordion is used for rhythm and harmony in the six-piece band.

The most interesting aspect is that neither Brighid nor Josephine use the basses when playing solo, and each is playing in a different style to the other.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2019, 07:15:20 PM by Alan Pittwood »
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richard.fleming

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Re: Women box players in Ireland - TG4 program
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2019, 06:15:02 PM »

It's all about the tune. Even soloists like Oliver Diviney use the basses fairly sporadically.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2019, 06:22:16 PM by richard.fleming »
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Peadar

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Re: Women box players in Ireland - TG4 program
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2019, 07:11:43 PM »

It's all about the tune.

Anyone ever heard of melody?
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hallelujahal

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Re: Women box players in Ireland - TG4 program
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2019, 08:29:05 PM »

I can't get the video to play - any clues?
Go on the TG4 player and find it there. You can view it in either Irish or English. There's a button for that top right corner. The programmes are still listed as Mna an Cheoil in the English version though. Box, concertina and fiddle are all still up there when you click on Selected Programmes.

That's what I have been doing but it won't play!
Are you using the TG4 app Rees? I needed to download the app on my iPad before it would play.
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Stiamh

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Re: Women box players in Ireland - TG4 program
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2019, 10:07:48 PM »

If you will forgive me, Steve, it's not that difficult.. (:)

No, it's not difficult. It's impossible. On a standard C#/D box, that is (or a B/C for that matter).  :|glug

And as I pointed out earlier, Méabh Ní Bh is visibly and audibly using the basses at 18:33 & ff. Looks like a nonstandard bass layout though.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 01:55:59 AM by Stiamh »
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boxcall

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Re: Women box players in Ireland - TG4 program
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2019, 10:18:50 PM »

This setup on the treble end , could solve the no left hand/ bass problem.

Really not a problem at all.
But if nothing else I like to use the basses as a noisy air button :P
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Rees

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Re: Women box players in Ireland - TG4 program
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2019, 11:07:03 PM »

I'm running Chrome on a Macbook Pro.
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Alan Pittwood

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Re: Women box players in Ireland - TG4 program
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2019, 11:35:16 PM »

And as I pointed out earlier, Méabh Ní Bh is visibly and audibly using the basses at 18:33 & ff. Looks like a nonstandard bass layout though.

Méabh Ní Bheaglaoich begins to play at 17:27.   Three fingers of her left hand are held together and rhythmically strike across the lower part of the bass buttons.   The tips of the three fingers extend beyond the bass buttons.

There is voice-over commentary from 17:43 to 18:22 and less view of the accordion, the music continues at lower volume: at 18:22 there is a cutaway as Méabh speaks to camera.

The music continues from 18:33 to 19:00 during which time the same hand movement is continued.   At high volume with headphones it is still not conclusive if there is any basses use and the guitar is overpowering at that volume.   There may be a sound from the accordion bass at 18:48 as the hand position changes upwards on the basses and possibly again when the hand moves similarly in the final twelve seconds.   The tune finishes with sound from the basses.

There is a final cutaway to speech at 19:00 and then a very brief fragment of her father, Séamus Begley, playing a two-row, using the basses, in duet with Steve Cooney, guitar.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 12:17:52 AM by Alan Pittwood »
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boxcall

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Re: Women box players in Ireland - TG4 program
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2019, 02:39:41 AM »

I'm running Chrome on a Macbook Pro.
On this page 2nd question it says they updated their site and older operating systems and the browsers they support may have problems, apparently you can email them and they will fix it right away ;)
https://tg4.ie/en/faq/frequently-asked-questions/
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Peadar

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Re: Women box players in Ireland - TG4 program
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2019, 07:52:15 AM »

I was under the impression that not using the bass end is quite common in Ireland? Traditional music belongs to time place and people. TG4 is a contemporary (Irish) Gaelic language channel...so if you want to play in the contemporary Irish style.....???
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Lyra

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Re: Women box players in Ireland - TG4 program
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2019, 12:05:16 PM »

I'm running Chrome on a Macbook Pro.
So am I - works fine for me. Chrome 73.0.3683.86 but I haven't upgraded to mojave yet
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Rees

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Re: Women box players in Ireland - TG4 program
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2019, 12:33:30 PM »

I'm running Chrome on a Macbook Pro.
So am I - works fine for me. Chrome 73.0.3683.86 but I haven't upgraded to mojave yet

Yes, still on High Sierra here.
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boxcall

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Re: Women box players in Ireland - TG4 program
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2019, 02:13:22 PM »

Sierra should be alright, Its working for me no problem Sierra 10.12.6 (16G1815) and chrome  Version 74.0.3729.108 (Official Build) (64-bit)
maybe, update your browser if possible.
sometimes it worth restarting things ( completly disconnecting power for 10 to 15  seconds), modem for new ISP address, computers don't load right, etc.,
not always fixing the problem.
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Re: Women box players in Ireland - TG4 program
« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2019, 05:42:47 PM »

I'm on OS 10.9.5 and can get it using Chrome Version 67.0.3396.87
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Alan Pittwood

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Re: Women box players in Ireland - TG4 programme
« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2019, 02:57:08 PM »

Mná an Cheoil
The six programmes dealing with women in Irish traditional music were shown in March and April 2019.   They are a re-run of a series first broadcast in the summer of 2015.

Although the TG4 Player usually makes the programmes freely available for only thirty-six days following the original broadcast, there are now further opportunities to view five of the six: the harp (no.1) programme is not available.

the flute/whistle programme (no.2) is available for sixteen days from today, 4 May 2019
https://tg4.ie/en/player/home/?pid=6011196384001&teideal=Mn%C3%A1%20an%20Cheoil&series=Mn%C3%A1%20an%20Cheoil&dlft=16

the concertina programme (no.3) is available for sixteen days from today, 4 May 2019
https://tg4.ie/en/player/home/?pid=6016581505001&teideal=Mn%C3%A1%20an%20Cheoil&series=Mn%C3%A1%20an%20Cheoil&dlft=16

the uilleann pipes programme (no.4) is available for sixteen days from today, 4 May 2019
https://tg4.ie/en/player/home/?pid=5702103260001&teideal=Mn%C3%A1%20an%20Cheoil&series=Mn%C3%A1%20an%20Cheoil&dlft=13

the fiddle programme (no.5) is available for sixteen days from today, 4 May 2019
https://tg4.ie/en/player/home/?pid=6022501388001&teideal=Mn%C3%A1%20an%20Cheoil&series=Mn%C3%A1%20an%20Cheoil&dlft=16

the accordion/melodeon programme (no.6) is available for sixteen days from today, 4 May 2019
https://tg4.ie/en/player/home/?pid=6025237725001&teideal=Mn%C3%A1%20an%20Cheoil&series=Mn%C3%A1%20an%20Cheoil&dlft=16
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 11:56:37 PM by Alan Pittwood »
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