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Author Topic: A Bunch of Questions!  (Read 2886 times)

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Richard J Delong

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A Bunch of Questions!
« on: April 27, 2019, 09:56:15 AM »

Hello!

I recently purchase and received a beautiful G/C Pokerwork from a kind MelNetter here about a month or so ago and I've been practicing during every spare moment I've had since - I've completely fallen in love with playing and it's even more fun than I had imagined!  I first thought that learning the bass accompaniment would be well beyond my current ability, but after lots of (slow and steady) repetitive practice I can now comfortably play a handful of simple waltzes while keeping a good rhythm - it's so wonderful to begin learning a new type of 'independence' between my hands and brain and to fall in love with playing this wonderful instrument... I will try to post a video soon to document my 'first steps' and hopefully get a few pointers!

Anyway, I have a handful of somewhat diverse questions for any of you who would like to comment.  I've numbered them below in hopes that it'll make it easier to respond.

1.  While playing near a fire the other night (at what I thought was a safe distance) it appears that a stray spark must have landed between a fold of the bellows, as just this morning I noticed a (very slight) puckering of the external coating and two very tiny circular dots that show the exposed fabric of the bellows below.  To be clear, there are no holes into the bellows, but it brought up a few bellows-related questions in my mind (and also served a good reminder to sit even further away!).  First, can anyone recommend how to best patch the bellows if there was ever a small puncture or tear?  For my, more minor mishap, I thought I might dab two very small spots of glue on the marks, just to renew the original coating and offer some protection (or is there any reason not to do this?).  Secondly, what are the typical (original German) Pokerwork bellows made from?  They look like 'painted' or perhaps coated fabric, but I really haven't inspected them thoroughly yet... Can they get a little wet and survive?  Lastly, are there any good places to order a new set of bellows for a Pokerwork and what do you think they might cost?  As I mentioned, mine are still fully intact, but it just got me thinking about how heartbreaking a tear would be and what my next step would be...

2.  I have been really enamoured with the lower pitch of the G/C and everything about the box is wonderful, *except* for the intensely 'clackey' bass buttons!  I've read through many past forum posts and definitely understand how common this phenomenon is, but it can be a little overwhelming to my ears and a bit detracting from the tunes... Have any of you successfully quieted them and could you please explain how this done and if it's a worthwhile job for a less-than-mechanically-inclined novice?  To clarify, the bass buttons themselves have the typical green felt at the bases and, though they are a little 'loose' themselves (they actually sway and jostle slightly when you pick up the box), it definitely seems like it's the internal mechanisms making the racket...  Anyway, any advice here?  I know I can get used to the sound, but it seems less-than-ideal in a musical instrument and would not be my preference if I can fix it...

3.  Related to the question above - amongst those of you who own a range of boxes, which specific models have been the quietest for you (in terms of 'unintended internal percussion') and have you owned or played any boxes that are silent (or nearly so)?  I'm mighty fortunate to have absolutely no more disposable income  ;) so please don't hold back on your recommendations, as a Pokerwork is what I will be playing for the foreseeable future, however I would still love to hear about your experiences with specific boxes (regardless of price and pedigree) and if certain designs or mechanisms can be mostly silent.  As an aside, my preference (at this early stage) is for loud, very wet boxes with weight and size not being a foreseeable issue... I thought I'd mention this because it sure is nice to know exactly what you're saving up for!

4.  Last question!  (I hope anyone has made it this far!)  I live on the windward side of Hawaii Island, surrounded by water and in a fairly open house - can melodeons survive in such a wet climate?  I've put together a hard-sided case with foam lining for storage, and put a few small moisture absorbent packets inside, but has anyone here sucessfully owned a box for many years in a wet, humid climate?  Any other tips or ideas for me to help preserve this box?  I certainly never let it get wet directly, but I just started wondering about all the persistent moisture and if it might become an issue.  This question is particularly on my mind because my wife and I are sailors and I've already started fantasizing about bringing a box on the next long trip, which led my mind to all the thoughts of what could go wrong and if such a complex and (relatively) fragile instrument could really survive a long period at sea... Any sailors or seaside players here?

Okay, I'll leave it at that!  Many thanks to anyone who has taken the time to read this far and for any advice you may have to offer!  MelNet is an incredible resource and I feel so lucky to have access to such indispensable knowledge! 

Hey, if any of you are headed to Hawaii I live outside of Hilo on the Big Island, not far from Volcano Nat'l Park and the recent lava flow and I would love to meet some other box players!  As far as I know I'm the only enthusiast for many miles and it would be great to meet any of you in person if you find yourself in this part of the world!  Thanks again for reading this epic post and for any suggestions!

Rich
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Lester

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Re: A Bunch of Questions!
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2019, 10:01:20 AM »

Thrupenny Bit

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Re: A Bunch of Questions!
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2019, 10:13:38 AM »

Well done!
To get both hands working together is a hard thing to do but congratulations on achieving it. I think it's the most important thing to get going when first starting up.

Lester has answered with his videos on how to silence the bass end. Just be aware, we as players have a distorted view (sound) of the box. If you can record it from 'the front' as an audience might hear, you could well find that the clacking is much less noticable.
And finally... My Castagnaris are much quieter than my old Hohners. The top end boxes tend to be less noisy.
Cheers
Q
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I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Fred

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Re: A Bunch of Questions!
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2019, 10:35:35 AM »

Bellows are made from sturdy paper and are then coated with fabric for durability and metal corners for protection.

Don't get them wet if at all avoidable.

Repair of your bellows scorching might not be best done with glue as that could clutter up like a flowing river of magma and then harden like a rock.
If you really want to reapply the coating (I personally would not), maybe try something more fluid and forgiving. Woodworking glue might be a good start. Apply it sparsely, wipe off residue while still wet, let rest. When it's hard but still too thick, you might apply a gentle (!) touch of very fine sandpaper to flatten out the glue drop.

Clackiness can be solved, see Lester's videos for that. However, you'll need to put in some time to solve that issue. I also disliked the clacky sound of my first pokerwork but have now grown accustomed to it whenever I pick it up for playing. It's just their sound.

Of course newer or fully restored boxes are quieter by a measurable margin. I even have 80 year old Hohner boxes that are fairly quiet in terms of their mechanism (definitely not in terms of their sound). It all depends on the rustiness of button mechanism, button bushing and pallet facing.

If you like loud and wet sounding instruments, Hohner is just about perfect for you. If you ever have the spare money (even one or two hundred bucks might do), you might consider getting a big old Hohner Club. Those have so much power, it will blow your socks off. ;)

No idea about sailing. Generally don't let your instruments get wet.
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Winston Smith

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Re: A Bunch of Questions!
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2019, 10:43:31 AM »

Richard, I don't have any specific advice to offer regarding your questions, sorry. But I've got to say how delighted I am to have vicariously gleaned some of your excitement and enthusiasm for our instruments from reading your post.
And, of course you're spot-on with regards to the help and support which this community of peculiar people freely offer, and long may it continue!
Good luck with your playing, and with your musical sailing experiences.
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fc diato

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Re: A Bunch of Questions!
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2019, 01:25:16 PM »

Can’t really answer your questions … but regarding no.4:  they do play accordion in Madagscar, Columbia, St.-Domingue… and many other damp places. There is also a sea-faring member who pops up often on this forum. I can’t remember his name, but someone else might. Or if you stick with the forum, you’ll eventually find him (his forum picture has him on a boat.) 

Re quiet boxes:  from my experience, all high-end boxes are pretty quiet new. Then become clackier as felt packs down, though never to Hohner levels. The fix Lester shows so wonderfully in that video really does make a huge difference.

fc diato in wet, cold, and flooding eastern Canada, now dreaming of Hawaii.

 
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playandteach

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Re: A Bunch of Questions!
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2019, 02:09:34 PM »

Hello, and welcome. My first tour as a musician was to Hawaii (and Australia / New Zealand) with Yehudi Menuhin and Glen Campbell (alternate nights). It was a great start to my career as a clarinet player. It also took me over a year to fully recover from the sunburn I got snorkelling in Hawaii.
Welcome to the forum. I have successfully bushed the bass holes on 2 instruments, so I can say that you don't have to live with clackiness. The only advice I'd offer is: don't try to use a drill to enlarge the holes.
I also play mainly GC so I hope you enjoy the journey - there's heaps of French music around.
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Richard J Delong

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Re: A Bunch of Questions!
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2019, 11:02:56 PM »

Thank you all for your suggestions and support!

Lester - I have been watching some of your Tune-a-Day videos and have felt really inspired!  You have an incredible talent and it's really helpful that you post the ABC file below - although I certainly can't play any of tunes at this point, it's helpful to 'follow-along' by reading the notes and listening to how you play.  With that in mind, could you (or anyone) direct me to a more complete description of how ABC files are notated?  I've read some of the more thorough descriptions that I could find on-line, but I've never found a more exhaustive summary... For example, I've never found anything that covers the '>' or the '/' symbols.  I play some tin whistle and have found the ABC files really helpful, but I've always wanted to learn about how to interpret it in more detail.

playandteach - Your instruction video series was really helpful in the first days of practice - your demeanor and presentations so patient and thorough that it makes everything seem less daunting - you're a born teacher for sure!  Yes, I found some incredible French resources and have been looking through hundreds of tabs to find right tunes to start with - my preference has been simple melodies with not too many bellows-direction changes... I'm working on polka now so that I don't lock my brain into the 1,2,3 base accompaniments! Thank you for your videos!

And thanks all for your advice - I haven't watched Lester's modification videos yet, but if it looks like there isn't an unreasonably-high chance that I'll ruin this fine box in the process then I'll probably give it a go! 

Yes, thank you all for taking the time to share and advise!  I've been keeping the somewhat handy on these days off so that I can pick it up and practice in spare moments and it already feels much more familiar...

Hey, does anyone know of any Melodeon/Accordion gatherings or events anywhere in the US?  I might have a chance to attend something on the West Coast this summer (if anything exists!), but I'd also be really interested to hear about any events anywhere in the country...  Lastly, what are the biggest melodeon events in Europe?

Thanks again!

Rich
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Peadar

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Re: A Bunch of Questions!
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2019, 11:08:14 PM »

As a novice myself I can hardly offer advice - but if you really want to take a box to sea I suggest you buy something like a Chanson "Child Prodigy", which may not be waterproof, but are very small and light (7 key x 1 row, in C, 1st button start, 2 basses, brass reeds on aluminium plates) and with a retail value of about £21 Sterling ($30??) can be regarded as neo-consumable.







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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: A Bunch of Questions!
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2019, 11:18:24 PM »

...could you (or anyone) direct me to a more complete description of how ABC files are notated?  I've read some of the more thorough descriptions that I could find on-line, but I've never found a more exhaustive summary... For example, I've never found anything that covers the '>' or the '/' symbols.  I play some tin whistle and have found the ABC files really helpful, but I've always wanted to learn about how to interpret it in more detail...

Guido's guide is pretty good.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/abcplus/

> is shorthand for swing (e.g.,) A>B is the same thing as A3/2B/2 i.e., broken or dotted rhythm etc.
/ is shorthand for /2 so A/ is the same as A/2
« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 11:23:38 PM by Tone Dumb Greg »
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Greg Smith
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Richard J Delong

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Re: A Bunch of Questions!
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2019, 03:10:44 AM »

As a novice myself I can hardly offer advice - but if you really want to take a box to sea I suggest you buy something like a Chanson "Child Prodigy", which may not be waterproof, but are very small and light (7 key x 1 row, in C, 1st button start, 2 basses, brass reeds on aluminium plates) and with a retail value of about £21 Sterling ($30??) can be regarded as neo-consumable.

Just watched some Child Prodigy videos - impressive to see what can be done on a 'toy' instrument!  Makes me want to focus more on technique and never get into the mindset that a more expensive box would make all the difference...  great idea to take a less-precious instrument to sea... I don't want to dwell on what we've 'lost' in the deep blue over the years - substantial though!
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Re: A Bunch of Questions!
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2019, 08:48:26 AM »

As a novice myself I can hardly offer advice - but if you really want to take a box to sea I suggest you buy something like a Chanson "Child Prodigy", which may not be waterproof, but are very small and light (7 key x 1 row, in C, 1st button start, 2 basses, brass reeds on aluminium plates) and with a retail value of about £21 Sterling ($30??) can be regarded as neo-consumable.

Just watched some Child Prodigy videos - impressive to see what can be done on a 'toy' instrument!  Makes me want to focus more on technique and never get into the mindset that a more expensive box would make all the difference...  great idea to take a less-precious instrument to sea... I don't want to dwell on what we've 'lost' in the deep blue over the years - substantial though!

1)Brendan Begley has a plastic Chinese toy box fitted with Binci reeds. Sounds pretty good.
2) Why not get a really big box that might keep you afloat for a while if you were swept overboard while playing it?
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Barlow

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Re: A Bunch of Questions!
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2019, 09:34:06 AM »

Suggesting buying another box for when at sea is inviting someone to have MAD syndrome. An affliction I scoffed at when first  read on these forums about it.

Barlow
Owner B/C Lily, ADG Gremlin (actually very nice) and D/G Pokerwork
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Winston Smith

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Re: A Bunch of Questions!
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2019, 10:14:55 AM »

"Barlow
Owner B/C Lily, ADG Gremlin (actually very nice) and D/G Pokerwork"

Just a mild infection, then?
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Re: A Bunch of Questions!
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2019, 12:24:12 PM »

"Barlow
Owner B/C Lily, ADG Gremlin (actually very nice) and D/G Pokerwork"

Just a mild infection, then?

It's only three items, but to have the semitone and 4th apart strains of the infection is potentially a serious complication.
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Barlow

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Re: A Bunch of Questions!
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2019, 11:20:15 PM »

"Barlow
Owner B/C Lily, ADG Gremlin (actually very nice) and D/G Pokerwork"

Just a mild infection, then?

It's only three items, but to have the semitone and 4th apart strains of the infection is potentially a serious complication.
I have actually found it quite enlightening. After a few months on the B/C and thinking I wasn't getting anywhere I tried the D/G. Playing on the row was ok but I soon found other buttons on the other row. It was hard on the brain but fun. Then after a few weeks of neglect I went back to the li'l Lilly B/C and I found that it was easier than before - all the things I had been struggling with were 'just there'. I'm not sure why this should be, but it works for me. So the Pokerwork D/G now gets neglected. (I bought ADG to give me an entry to D/G but I realise that to play ADG properly is a whole new ball game and I'm not sure I really want to go there. Not yet).

ps 'only 3 items'. Is that not enough? (Actually I think I know the answer to that)

 






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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: A Bunch of Questions!
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2019, 11:39:50 PM »

ps 'only 3 items'. Is that not enough? (Actually I think I know the answer to that)

Obviously a NO! brainer
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Greg Smith
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Peadar

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Re: A Bunch of Questions!
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2019, 09:50:51 PM »


"Barlow
Owner B/C Lily, ADG Gremlin (actually very nice) and D/G Pokerwork"


I have actually found it quite enlightening. ]


"I have actually found it quite enlightening" .... I tell myself that too.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 09:54:16 PM by Peadar »
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Pat McInnis

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Re: A Bunch of Questions!
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2019, 02:24:12 AM »

Interesting that you also play the tin whistle. I've adapted a bunch of my whistle tunes to my various crappy boxes for playing up and down the rows and it seems to work quite well. Mind you, I haven't gotten onto basses yet. You're ahead of me there.
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Richard J Delong

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Re: A Bunch of Questions!
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2019, 09:40:47 AM »

Aloha Pat,

Yes the whistle has been an incredible gift in my life - it's been one of my first experiences in recent years with not only learning music (when I had thought for most if my life that I just didn't have the 'aptitude') but even surpassing my own goals or aspirations.  I've always loved music but just never put in the time and effort to play, and the whistle has really brought beautiful music into my life and has helped build a better (basic) understanding of scales, timing, rhythm, and so on...  One of my favorite experiences with learning to really play the whistle is how (relatively) awful and squeaky it sounds for so long in the beginning, then somewhere along the way transforms into something like seamless birdsong (sometimes!).  Anyway, did I read somewhere that you're in Ireland?  My wife and I were planning a trip there recently but it had to be postponed - I was really looking forward to hearing some fine Irish music in person for the first time... I've been so focused on Irish and Scottish tunes for so long that it's been really great to be listening to more French folk and the incredible English tunes on Anahata's page (that guy's a true rock star)!!  I love the deep G/C tuning!

I wanted to mention quickly in response to your post (and a previous post of yours I read somewhere) that I was really intimidated with the thought of learning bass accompaniments at first, even thinking that my brain might not be adequately wired to accomplish such a thing.  I found that using a well-notated tab (with the treble notes aligned on top with accompanying bass and chord letters on bottom), that I could just practice single phrases at a time, repeating it over and over until I could match the melody with the bass.  At some point it just became fluid, even a little supportive to the melody as it serves a little like a foot-tap (for me) to keep good timing with the melody.  To be clear, I would practice the treble melody separately until that became really familiar, then just go at a snail's pace with trying to link it with the bass... there was something about seeing the treble note number directly above the bass letter allowed my brain to slip into the timing, first shakily then more fluidly....  Please know this is not meant to sound condescending by any means!!  I'm a raw beginner and simply trying to offer what has worked for me and send my encouragement.

I've been planning to find some G-scale whistle tunes that I know on the box and hope to make some time tomorrow...

Rich
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