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[george garside]

in the capacity of 'devils advocate'  the question of right hand chords - the playing of - depends to some degree on whether or not the individual has had any theoretical /classical musical teaching at sometime or other   or whether the individual is a self taught mainly 'by ear' player.

 Speaking as a member of the latter group  I use a great many right hand chords and see them as  a more or less integral  part of much of my music. However I havn't  a clue and am not in the least bothered about the names or types of chords  I play and am only concerned about them sounding good and enhancing the tune I am playing.  I suppose I found the chords using Tony Halls advice on the lines of  '' keep a tune note going  and  prod different buttons with other fingers until you get a sound you like'' or something on those lines - It was very sound advice  and has enabled me to shove in a agreat many chords  using 2 3 or 4 fingers and even occasionally chucking in the thumb!.   

To me , getting too theoretical about things is  somehow contrary to  playing what is after all atraditional 'folk' instrument.


george ( acting as devils advocate and running for cover!) 

[Thrupenny Bit]

George, I asked the same thing to Owen Woods of this parish some time back and he came back with a similar 'push a button till it sounds right...'
The great thing about p&t's approach is that it is another way to remind one of the chords available. He's also got some exercises around the chords, using his musical theory and experience with other instruments.
All in all, it's good exercises whether you prod and poke or get full chords going. I suspect most of us will be in the middle, but it's all good. More gristle to the mill!
Cheers
Q

[Tone Dumb Greg]

in the capacity of 'devils advocate'  the question of right hand chords - the playing of - depends to some degree on whether or not the individual has had any theoretical /classical musical teaching at sometime or other   or whether the individual is a self taught mainly 'by ear' player.

 Speaking as a member of the latter group  I use a great many right hand chords and see them as  a more or less integral  part of much of my music. However I havn't  a clue and am not in the least bothered about the names or types of chords  I play and am only concerned about them sounding good and enhancing the tune I am playing...

The advantage of having a musical vocabulary which includes naming of chords etc., is that it gives you a language that enables you to discuss them without having to demonstrate them every time, this can be very useful.
God's prosecuting Angel.

[playandteach]

in the capacity of 'devils advocate'  the question of right hand chords - the playing of - depends to some degree on whether or not the individual has had any theoretical /classical musical teaching at sometime or other   or whether the individual is a self taught mainly 'by ear' player.

To me , getting too theoretical about things is  somehow contrary to  playing what is after all atraditional 'folk' instrument.
george ( acting as devils advocate and running for cover!) 

I'm afraid you didn't run far enough or fast enough.
To me, getting too protectionist about things is contrary to what is after all a forum for helping each other.

You've found your own way through chords your way. Why does that have to be the only way? There's nothing 'classical' about the chords we all use every time we press a left hand button. Would you advise cooking without using name labels? Surely if someone knows which wild plants are good to eat and which aren't, we can learn from them rather than experimenting with every type of mushroom and watching for results.
This thread was specifically a result of having sat with Pascale Rubens and Toon who clearly know their stuff, whereas I (whilst knowing them well on other instruments) didn't know them on the melodeon.
For what it's worth, I didn't then find a youtube channel to show me which buttons to push anonymously, but worked out which buttons I wanted by sound first, then labelled them. By copying Naragonia's approach I hope to find an insight into their playing and composing. Whilst 'standing on the shoulders of giants' isn't within my skills as it implies going further than the giants did, I have stood there for a moment, and I really like the view.
By the way, no offence taken - despite my lengthy response.

[george garside]

no offence taken and of course each to his own and some to a bit of both

george

[Gary P Chapin]

Just want to offer thanks for this thread.

[Chris Ryall]

Learning rt hand chords was the best thing I ever did. They are fundamental to song accompaniment, my main interest at present.

But also so so useful in texturing a tune, popping in variations, or even an improvised line. The instrument isn't called "accordion" (across most of the World for nothing)!

Most of the guides focus on major or minor triads. Don't forget sus chords. So simple : lay a single finger across both rows and pull, B+A on a DG is a great example. You have the bones of a sus9. Now change the bass D, A, C, G(if you have that pull) - cadence!

Other easy ones are play D triad D,F#, A push on D row. Now move the middle finger across = Dsus4 😀 again try that with different basses. Great chord when playing in G

Last tip for 2 rows is to make an A chord (A, C#, E, pulling), it crosses the rows. Now just switch to push! Another sus, it resolves to A. Again, try B, D or G, push E if you have it bass againt that.

These are all simple 2-3 finger effects that work on 2 rows. I love 'em

[fc diato]

As a poke-and-search myself, I think this is fantastic.
I'm envious of those who master theory, but will need to retire before having a bit of time for the hard work it would take to even relearn basics I once knew. This is applied theory-lite, and deem it will help to poke about less blindly. 

Thanks P&T !!

(Chris Ryall posted while I typed ... that'll take me a few rereads to figure out. Thanks for that, too.)

[-Y-]

Couldn't agree more with Chris. Suspended chords are great, especially for (but not limited to) traditional music.
One of the most useful technique (IMO) for accompaniment is voicing, ie the attention given to the sequence of chords, and particularly to chords inversion, in order to try and have consistency in how the succession of chords sounds. On the accordion, we have a lot in common in that regard with piano.
For instance it can be as simple as maintaining the same chord on the right-hand side and changing the bass. Or as Chris suggested, making a sus4 and then shifting to the tonic triad.
I believe it's at the heart of Naragonia's music, and that's (among other things) why P&T videos are great.
Also as regards the naming of chords, I think it's important not so much for giving a chord a name, but as a way to express how it was formed, and what harmonic function it serves. You can do harmony without knowing the names of the chords, but, from my experience, having a tiny bit of musical theory in mind just makes you save tremendous amounts of time, even if you play traditional music.

[Dick Rees]

in the capacity of 'devils advocate'  the question of right hand chords - the playing of - depends to some degree on whether or not the individual has had any theoretical /classical musical teaching at sometime or other   or whether the individual is a self taught mainly 'by ear' player.

I have one foot in each boat, so to speak.  The first half-dozen instruments I played were all learned from lessons and printed music.  The next half-dozen I picked up by ear via the "folk" method.  The first block of study taught me all the notes in the right order, the second the music itself.

Chords in and of themselves are simple enough.  Know the notes/intervals and you can find the fingerings easily enough with a simple fingerboard chart.  But true to the adage "form follows function",
the choice of voicings/inversions (as well as whole tone clusters) may be said to be situational as you build musically coherent lines.

The beauty of the two-row diatonic system is that the choices presented to you are functionally pre-sorted.  More "advanced" efforts seem to be accomodated by 12 or 18 bass/3 row boxes.  Freddie Green (Duke Ellingtons guitar player) was known for playing two-note chords...the right two.

But in the end, don't we choose to use what "sounds good" or "sounds right" no matter what the theory may say?

[george garside]

at risk of a bit of thread drift both rhythm  and chords can be added on the right hand. This adds another 'layer' of rhythm on top of the 2 provided by the bass and by gentle pulsing of the bellows.   Its simply a question of playing a partial chord  with 2 or 3 fingers whilst using the 3rd and o4th finger to beat a gentle rhythm  on a handy harmonising button. Or using 2 fingers to make the 'tune note' into a bit of a chord and 2 to add rhythm.

Much easier to do than to explain  but can be very effective.

Presumably this can be done from the dots as well as/instead of 'by ear'.

george

[Dick Rees]

at risk of a bit of thread drift both rhythm  and chords can be added on the right hand. This adds another 'layer' of rhythm on top of the 2 provided by the bass and by gentle pulsing of the bellows.   Its simply a question of playing a partial chord  with 2 or 3 fingers whilst using the 3rd and o4th finger to beat a gentle rhythm  on a handy harmonising button. Or using 2 fingers to make the 'tune note' into a bit of a chord and 2 to add rhythm.

Much easier to do than to explain  but can be very effective.

Presumably this can be done from the dots as well as/instead of 'by ear'.

george

You can also build chords using both hands, i.e.:  LH bass note against RH di- or triad.

May I suggest that developing/expanding harmonic concepts can proceed from simply finding harmony lines to go with a given melodic line?

[Chris Ryall]

yup, once you've found a chord, find it in upper octave too! You might not use it per see up there, but a  "voicing" starts a chord on a non tonic.

Eg G -= G,B,D can be played a place up as BDG, or even DGB.  I played Cm on my kit, low end for ages and suddenly realised that 2nd inversion GCEb was truly "sweet". 

If you arpeggio your chords  - up and down by notes - then there is usually more "music" in plating an inversion. Frankly up and diwn from tonic gets dull if repeated too much.

Easy minor sus chord  is Em9, E bass and chord, swing index finger  nto Grow. Again, vary the bass. The progression E!D,C all pull is awsome against the m9 chord. Why? The C clashes the F# in the chord. It's like bottled tears …

[Chris Ryall]

May I suggest that developing/expanding harmonic concepts can proceed from simply finding harmony lines to go with a given melodic line?

Yes, yes, YES. Starting point for nearly all good improvisation. You can also biuld as above with the relative minor/major, just play the other one and experiment.  Eg's C/Am, D,Bm, Em/G swap.

Start a varation on a chord, but end with a single note (not the tonic 😎

[Dick Rees]

Now that Chris has brought it up, chords containing the same tones ( in one inversion or another ) can have more than one name depending on the context.  For instance, Gmaj6 and Emin7 are made up of the same tones which is why the E bass note with the G triad on a G/C box gives you a functional E minor(7).  If you combine the bass note with various RH notes the chord voicing possibilities expand a bit.

But the take-away is context.  Going down the Theory road is fine...as long as you have contextual mile-posts.  I think these are established by finding a use for or re-use of certain pleasing voicings picked up from one tune and transplanted to another.  At any rate, my feeling and experience is that things stick with me when they come from a specific application rather than a theoretical study.  I understand the theory, certainly, but until it's put to use it remains theoretical and my rememberator puts it on a back shelf.

YMMV

[playandteach]

So much of what is being said chimes well with me. But perhaps because of what I used to do for a living, I have no shame in enjoying the practice itself as a discipline and find a charm in it en route to application to other more musical opportunities.
Some of it is personal not only to individual players, but also to boxes. An inversion can highlight the intonation - 3rd on top can allow a sharp 3rd to shout proudly, but stick it in the middle of a chord and it just sounds out of tune.
Although, as Chris said, a second inversion chord has a sweetness about it in certain circumstances. There is a common 'classical' ending to a phrase: Ic, V, I for those that want to know, where the first chord is a second inversion...the first chord is (to quote someone I've forgotten) is so 'full of fiveness' that it is really a double appoggiatura leading to chord V. For those who think that this is pretension, I apologise and will happily explain it. The beauty of it remains, without the labels, so look away if you don't like labels.
Dick says, rightly that we choose what sounds right but I disagree about 'whatever the theory says'. Show me something that sounds right, and I will tell you (with the obvious limits of my own knowledge) why it sounds right. Does it spoil it to know why it works? For me, it makes it even more magical to know that a skilled composer can manipulate the harmonic series to create an emotional response. Look at any Shostakovich symphony and the hair will rise on your neck, just at the moment that Shostakovich chooses it to rise.
I'm about to put a new exercise up, that is really only about familiarisation. It has no real insight into harmony, yet I have found it to be a real moment for me of revelation - about how the melodeon push pull scale causes the notes to move in relation to each other. further up the keyboard. If it only reaches out to me and one other then it's worth the effort.
I also agree with both of those who said that chords are one step towards creating extra melodic lines. So that is Chris and Dick, in this case. I wouldn't suggest for a moment that learning chord shapes makes for intelligent application, but (AND THIS IS THE IMPORTANT BIT) it can be a door opening for someone to where the notes are and how to find them - whether in composition, improvisation, accompaniment, or even in building muscle memory. If you find that it spoils the magic, that's fine. For me, understanding is the only way I work and it is equally exciting alongside with whatever route you may have found.
As I'm writing this post, my son is home from uni (doing physics at Edinburgh) and he's playing Dear Evan Hanson on the piano while he and my daughter sing their hearts out. I'm not all about theory. At all.

[Choonz]

Can I echo my thanks for the work you have put into this and for your generosity in sharing it.  I have downloaded everything and although I have done some chord work in numerous workshops before, this gives me some structure that will help me.

[playandteach]

I've made a rather late observation that many players will instinctively already know. Some of the pull chords are an awful lot like the push chords. I know that I have the G and A notes in both directions due to my layout. Either Pignol or Milleret, I've forgotten which, says that even if you don't have the reversals (most of you won't) that using the G on the outside row is a good habit if you ever think about a 3 row box in the future. I have no choice, anyway. This does create one pretty pattern that makes the G Push chord and arpeggio very similar to the A minor one.
I think there are untapped options here for learning octaves and the weird way the notes fall apart from each other as you go up the keyboard. So here is a pattern of exercises designed to exploit that similarity, and to unpick where the changes start to happen.
I will do a video, probably tomorrow.
Here it is in DG guise for now. Don't worry about the very high notation, it's just the same 3 notes over and over as they go up the keyboard. It probably won't make sense until you see the video.
I'm sensing that some feel the need to stand up for what I'm trying to share. Thanks. I would have survived the comments, but it is a great help to know that I'm not just a lone voice in my approach. The exercises are helping me on my journey, mainly as they bolt things together in my head, and in my two hands. It's great to be able to think out loud.
EDIT Just spotted an incorrect bit of text in bar 43 - should read double stretch instead of all up. I'll upload a new file.

[Squeaky Pete]

This is a really useful and thought provoking thread. Thank you P&T. And thanks for sharing your excercises.
 I went to a workshop with Emmanuel Pariselle The other weekend and he was encouraging us to explore the instrument in much the same way.

[playandteach]

I guarantee that's the only time my name will be in the same post as a giant of the game. But thank you anyway.