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[Roger Hare]

Can't help with your 'Cow' problem, although given its context in the tune's title I think it might be a place name.

You beat me to it - just!  A mis-spelt place-name I wondered? There is a place in Carmarthenshire called Cieo/Caeo...

Re John Roose[2].  He was a member of Manchester's finest. I couldn't find out any more at the Local History
Archive in Manchester Central Library, but they told me about the Police Museum, so next week I'll toddle along
there and see if they can come up with anything. There is a John Roose listed as a professional musician and living
in Wales in the pre-WWII ''Register' (which apparently replaced the census in the days before WWII). I wonder if
that's 'our' John Roose [3]? He would be in his late-fifties/early-sixties by then.

Hulme has been knocked down and re-built twice (3 times if you include Hitler), so there's no trace of Welcomb Street...

[Pete Dunk]

I now find that there is a hamlet called Cow Ark near Clitheroe, Lancashire, not so very far from Manchester where the manuscript originated so it may be a local tune.

[Tone Dumb Greg]

Hasn't VMP already transcribed Thompson's? I'm sure I saw you credited, Pete.

[Pete Dunk]

I didn't do Vol. 5, an American chap transcribed it and published a book called Thompson Revisited. The VMP don't transcribe manuscripts that are published even though the source material is public domain.

[ChrisP]

Can't help with your 'Cow' problem, although given its context in the tune's title I think it might be a place name.

I'd just like to mention that I've found a couple of tunes in my batch are exact matches with tunes from Samuel, Ann & Peter Thompson – Complete Collection of 200 Favourite Country Dances, vol. 5 (London, 1788). Every detail is identical, which leads me to think the writer of the Roose MS copied out some tunes from this publication. I found the matches by searching titles in http://abcnotation.com/search and could then use the abc notation already created by other kind souls.

Good find. Others take note.

[Pete Dunk]

Here's a link to the printed copy of Thompson 5 transcribed and publish bt Boyd Rothenberger in 2007.

[Tone Dumb Greg]

Here's a link to the printed copy of Thompson 5 transcribed and publish bt Boyd Rothenberger in 2007.

Is a facsimile of the original available anywhere in the public domain?

[Pete Dunk]

Not that I can find but ChrisP is the one to ask. There's a copy in the Bodleian Library Oxford.

[ChrisP]

Here's a link to the printed copy of Thompson 5 transcribed and publish bt Boyd Rothenberger in 2007.

Is a facsimile of the original available anywhere in the public domain?

Not according to my records.

[ChrisP]

However, Andrew Kuntz has transcribed at least some of them  here https://tunearch.org/wiki/Harlequin_Gardener
and there is a list of the contents here https://www.cdss.org/elibrary/DFIE/Biblio/B000573.htm

[Pete Dunk]

This is the first tune I've come across with something a bit different about it. The change of mode for the B music is so pronounced I thought it worth annotating it even if there is no practical difference to the notation. I like quirky stuff like this and would tend to repeat the B if simply playing it as a tune

X:0343
T:Frolic. Roose 0343, The
M:6/8
L:1/8
Q:3/8=110
K:A
e2e e2d|cdB A2E|FGA Bcd|c3B3|
e2e e2d|cdB A2f|edc BAG|A3A3:|
K:E mixolydian % 3 sharps
e^de B2d|c2e B2e|cde fga|g3f3|
bag fed|edc BAG|ABc BGE|F3E3!D.C.!|]

[Pete Dunk]

Just checking with ChrisP.

I have a tune in Bb with an accidental F#. Do I; a) ignore the (thoretical) error and transcribe it as written; b) change it to Gb with an NB above the note and an N: field in the header; c) change it to Gb and say nowt?

Edited to remove a second, redundant question. I should have re-read the transcriber notes!

[ChrisP]

This is the first tune I've come across with something a bit different about it. The change of mode for the B music is so pronounced I thought it worth annotating it even if there is no practical difference to the notation. I like quirky stuff like this and would tend to repeat the B if simply playing it as a tune

X:0343
T:Frolic. Roose 0343, The
M:6/8
L:1/8
Q:3/8=110
K:A
e2e e2d|cdB A2E|FGA Bcd|c3B3|
e2e e2d|cdB A2f|edc BAG|A3A3:|
K:E mixolydian % 3 sharps
e^de B2d|c2e B2e|cde fga|g3f3|
bag fed|edc BAG|ABc BGE|F3E3!D.C.!|]

I think that it's A maj all the way, the E at the end is only passing through, and it wants to settle back to the A. It would also benefit from the d in 13 being sharpened like bar 9.

[ChrisP]

Just checking with ChrisP.

I have a tune in Bb with an accidental F#. Do I; a) ignore the (thoretical) error and transcribe it as written; b) change it to Gb with an NB above the note and an N: field in the header; c) change it to Gb and say nowt?

Edited to remove a second, redundant question. I should have re-read the transcriber notes!

Butchers of Bristol! At last we meet! John Offord keeps mentioning this but I never could find it!
Anyway, key is Gm. It's what is called "Modal Hornpipe" in Ann Gilchrist's transcription of the William Irwin MS, and John calls it Barbara Allen (why?) in the John of the Green, the Cheshire Way book.
Anyway, it all works fine exactly as it is, F# .

[ChrisP]

Peter, I see you have a tune called "Crabby Frolics" in your batch! From Cromer perhaps
We should have a competition for finding the best title.

[Pete Dunk]

X:0337
T:Crabby Frolics. Roose. 0337
M:6/8
L:1/8
Q:3/8=110
K:G
dBG ecA|fdB g2f|fed cBA|BAG FED|
dBG ecA|fdB fga|fed Ad^c|d3d3:|
|:dBG ecA|fdB g2f|fed cBA|BAG FED|
dBG ecA|fdB g3|fga fed|Ad^c d3:|
|:B2B BGB|c2c c2d|fed cBA|BAG FED|
B2B BGB|c2c c2d|dcB AGF|G3G3:|

I realised when actually transcribing it that Butches of Bristol was Gm not Bb and ended up leaving the F# as is.

I'm surprised The Frolic is all Amaj, the B really sounds very modal to me but I'll edit it accordingly. Do you want the d in 13 to be NB'd as better sharpened?

[smiley]

We should have a competition for finding the best title.

Roose no.172: "Bonny Lad With His Trousers On"

While I'm here, I was wondering if I should include an F:  tag to list the URL for the duplicate tune from tunearch.org  for example

T:Oaks Assembly. Roose.0171, The
N: identical to No.119, p.60 in Compleat Collection of 200 Favourite Country Dances vol.5 (London, 1788)
F:https://tunearch.org/wiki/Oaks_Assembly_(The)

[Roger Hare]

While I'm here, I was wondering if I should include an F:  tag to list the URL for the duplicate tune from tunearch.org  for example

I've been using comments (%) for all stuff like that - this is probably ducking the issue a little, but it's
my normal practice for my own scripts, so I just stuck with it, leaving it to wiser heads than mine to
make the final decision...

I have a Roose tune called 'Quoz', which I thought was a little bizarre...

[Roger Hare]

Any ideas on what this is? At first I thought it might (just) be 'So.', but (a) it don't look
like other 'So's in my batch and (b) it's above the music rather than below. It looks
like a 'ho' with a bit of a twiddle at the start of the 'h', but I'm not sure...

I did try sharpening it up with GIMP, but no dice...

Ta.

[ChrisP]

We should have a competition for finding the best title.

Roose no.172: "Bonny Lad With His Trousers On"

While I'm here, I was wondering if I should include an F:  tag to list the URL for the duplicate tune from tunearch.org  for example

T:Oaks Assembly. Roose.0171, The
N: identical to No.119, p.60 in Compleat Collection of 200 Favourite Country Dances vol.5 (London, 1788)
F:https://tunearch.org/wiki/Oaks_Assembly_(The)

Not necessary.