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Author Topic: The VMP Roose MS Project  (Read 10980 times)

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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2019, 11:57:10 PM »

Any ideas on what this is? At first I thought it might (just) be 'So.', but (a) it don't look
like other 'So's in my batch and (b) it's above the music rather than below. It looks
like a 'ho' with a bit of a twiddle at the start of the 'h', but I'm not sure...

I did try sharpening it up with GIMP, but no dice...

Ta.

Comparing the script with other script in the ms, the first thing that looks like a bit like an "a" is almost certainly an embellishment, making the text (possibly) ho. Could this be an abreviation of "hold", as in fermata?
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Roger Hare

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #41 on: May 27, 2019, 06:43:56 AM »

...the first thing that looks like a bit like an "a" is almost certainly an embellishment, making the text (possibly) ho...
I think you're right (looking at it again, having slept on it). 'ho.' it is. Thanks.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2019, 10:38:09 AM »

Having relished the clarity of my pdf, I now realise that there is a mark above a note I don't recognise ( Roose 218, bars2 & 6: ) :
It's a straight line down, a sort of exclamation mark ( ! ) without the dot at the bottom.
It's above the end note in (e/f/g)e  sequence, i.e. above the final e.
Any ideas?
Q
getting going.....
« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 11:02:22 AM by Thrupenny Bit »
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #43 on: May 27, 2019, 11:01:06 AM »

Here's another one, the opening bar of 220:
I'm used to -say- G>B to give emphasis on the first note of the two.
How would I reverse it to give emphasis on the second note?
Never seen that before, but very clear, then reverting in the next bar to the normal x>y!
Confused of Devon  ;)
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Pete Dunk

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #44 on: May 27, 2019, 11:33:10 AM »

Having relished the clarity of my pdf, I now realise that there is a mark above a note I don't recognise ( Roose 218, bars2 & 6: ) :
It's a straight line down, a sort of exclamation mark ( ! ) without the dot at the bottom.
It's above the end note in (e/f/g)e  sequence, i.e. above the final e.
Any ideas?
Q
getting going.....

It's a 'wedge', a fiddler's accent mark. !wedge! will reproduce it. If there are lots of them in a piece add this to the header
U:w=!wedge!
This a user defined field to give you a shortcut of w to add the character.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 12:23:26 PM by Pete Dunk »
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #45 on: May 27, 2019, 11:55:39 AM »

Here's another one, the opening bar of 220:
I'm used to -say- G>B to give emphasis on the first note of the two.
How would I reverse it to give emphasis on the second note?
Never seen that before, but very clear, then reverting in the next bar to the normal x>y!
Confused of Devon  ;)

just reverse the symbol: G<B. Sounds like a Scottish snap.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2019, 11:57:13 AM »

Is the complete manuscript viewable anywhere on line?
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Greg Smith
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Pete Dunk

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #47 on: May 27, 2019, 12:31:47 PM »

A far as I'm aware this is a privately owned manuscript and the owner has given permission for the VMP to transcribe it. The only person to have access to the whole thing is ChrisP.

( Roose 218, bars2 & 6: )

Incidently, there is no point quoting a tune number from the manuscript as you (with the exception of ChrisP) are the only one with access to your batch! Try posting an image if you need clarification, fortunately your description in this instance was very clear.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #48 on: May 27, 2019, 12:52:50 PM »

Thanks Greg and Pete, will annotate the respective tunes.
( Duh.... Greg, never thought of reversing it, that was an option I hadn't tried!)

Yes, I should have posted a picture, apologies for my laziness, but it is a Bank Holiday  (:)
thanks all
Q
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #49 on: May 27, 2019, 01:07:56 PM »

Just a quick comment to everyone about asking for explanations of unusual signs, markings, symbols, etc.
If you post a photo or scan of the music, please could you include more, if not all, of the tune in question. It helps if the symbol can be seen in the context of the whole tune, not just a small fragment. You might need to add a second scan of the zoomed-in bit though.

Thanks!


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Roger Hare

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2019, 07:11:13 PM »

...It's a straight line down, a sort of exclamation mark ( ! ) without the dot at the bottom.
It's above the end note in (e/f/g)e  sequence, i.e. above the final e...
It's a 'wedge', a fiddler's accent mark. !wedge! will reproduce it. If there are lots of them in a piece add this to the header
Oh, dear! I've been assuming that was 18th-century-speak for a 'dot' as in  '(e/f/g).e' - is that wrong then?

Sorry Chris!!! Only two instances of this I think, both in #0195, both below the note.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2019, 07:47:55 PM »

That's exactly what I had except it was above a d in the stave.
They be wedges!
Q
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Rob Lands

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2019, 08:55:05 PM »

Talking about sharpened notes.  I am finding versions of tunes that seem to be copied from tune books and perhaps copied incorrectly.  For example
Tullochorum Highland Fling (the name took some decyphering)  This is written in one sharp with flattened F's notes except for two that do not carry the sign.  If it did flatten those two F's it would be a very good match for 'Tulluchgorum' aka 'The Celebrated Highland Fling' WES.101.Westrop’s 120 Country Dances, 1860’s.  I have been wondering if it was simply copied out incorrectly especially the final repeat mark is missing, the start repeat is present. My file currently has the two F sharps in it but it does sound wrong to the ear.
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Pete Dunk

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2019, 10:16:21 PM »

Sorry Chris!!! Only two instances of this I think, both in #0195, both below the note.

I've seen a lot of wedge marks over the years, but never below the note so that's a first.

!_wedge! doesn't work, and to be honest I think it's simply wrong, I would replace it with the symbol above and put it down to writers error.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2019, 10:46:31 PM »

Sorry Chris!!! Only two instances of this I think, both in #0195, both below the note.

I've seen a lot of wedge marks over the years, but never below the note so that's a first.

!_wedge! doesn't work, and to be honest I think it's simply wrong, I would replace it with the symbol above and put it down to writers error.

Is it worth an NB?
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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2019, 11:21:14 PM »

Sorry Chris!!! Only two instances of this I think, both in #0195, both below the note.

I've seen a lot of wedge marks over the years, but never below the note so that's a first.

!_wedge! doesn't work, and to be honest I think it's simply wrong, I would replace it with the symbol above and put it down to writers error.

Is it worth an NB?
No, I don't think so. Just use the !wedge! code and leave it at that. It's not even 'writer's error', just the idiosyncracy of the music handwriting of the time, in the same way as downward stems of notes are often placed to the right of the note head.
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ChrisP

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #56 on: May 28, 2019, 09:34:48 AM »

Talking about sharpened notes.  I am finding versions of tunes that seem to be copied from tune books and perhaps copied incorrectly.  For example
Tullochorum Highland Fling (the name took some decyphering)  This is written in one sharp with flattened F's notes except for two that do not carry the sign.  If it did flatten those two F's it would be a very good match for 'Tulluchgorum' aka 'The Celebrated Highland Fling' WES.101.Westrop’s 120 Country Dances, 1860’s.  I have been wondering if it was simply copied out incorrectly especially the final repeat mark is missing, the start repeat is present. My file currently has the two F sharps in it but it does sound wrong to the ear.
Really it's in the key of what we would nowadays call the modal key of G Mixolydian, which has the same notes as Cmaj but is "centred" on G. So it could be notated simply as no sharps with a NB to that effect, and in fact that's what I would do in this case, for databaseing. The concept of modes other than major and minor was strange territory in those days however, and the theory (or theories) took (are taking) a while to develop. The original copyist here realised it centred on G, so key sig Gmaj with accidentals was appropriate, and had the advantage of warning the cello not to play in C.

ChrisP

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #57 on: May 28, 2019, 09:37:31 AM »

I add that I mean call it K:Gmix

Rob Lands

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #58 on: May 28, 2019, 10:32:58 AM »

Thanks Chris
I have changed it to Gmix and it looks and sounds much better. I'll make the relevant notes.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #59 on: May 28, 2019, 01:04:39 PM »

On the subect of keys, what key would you use for this? I have put it in Dmix, but I'm open to correction.
Also, Is it a good idea to mark the end point of the Da Capo with a fine or a fermata?
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