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Author Topic: The VMP Roose MS Project  (Read 24307 times)

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ChrisP

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The VMP Roose MS Project
« on: May 21, 2019, 12:35:14 PM »

Who's up for volunteering to do some ABC transcriptions?
Through the generosity of a friend, Peter Law, who recently managed to obtain this large manuscript, the Village Music Project has been given copies of it, along with permission to ABC it.
From what I know of it so far it seems to date from after the middle of the 19thC. Unlike some of Buttrey it is very neatly and clearly laid out, and legible.
It has been batched up as PDFs to about 35 tunes per batch. I could snip smaller lumps off if you don't want to start with that many.
Let me know either by PM or email please, as I may not read this thread often.

Pete Dunk

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2019, 12:38:26 PM »

PM sent, I'm in!
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Mike Hirst

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2019, 03:24:47 PM »

I'd be happy to do a batch or two.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2019, 03:28:30 PM »

I'm happy to do a batch.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2019, 08:30:20 AM »

Yep, me too!
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I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

ChrisP

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2019, 06:36:19 PM »

When you get your batches, check through first for out-of-focus pages that you can't deal with, and I'll ask for clearer pics.

Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2019, 11:44:14 PM »

One question. What is the VMP identifier for the ms? Sorry if this is obvious when you look in the right place, but I haven't found it.
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Greg Smith
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ACCORDION, n. An instrument in harmony with the sentiments of an assassin. Ambrose Bierce

Rob Lands

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2019, 02:25:26 PM »

Quick question which may have been answered on early strands
Sym.
So.
Written under the stave.  Am I right in thinking that normally Sym. = together (or chorus). and So. = solo
For context I think I have an ornamented song tune but cannot track it down, "Every Inch a Sailor"
A nearby tune is clearly based on a 1730 Henry Fielding ballad "Roast Beef of Old England" So this may have a similar source.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2019, 03:00:42 PM »

I'm pretty sure that Steve gave a definitive answer to this in discussions wrt the Buttrey ms. I believe it is short for "symphony" and, in earlier times meant played together, or in harmony. This meaning seems to have persisted, to an extent, after it was adopted as a noun to describe a particular musical  structure: The symphony.
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Greg Smith
DG/GC Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, pre-war CF Hohner, Hohner 1040 Vienna style, old  BbEb Hohner that needs a lot of work.

ACCORDION, n. An instrument in harmony with the sentiments of an assassin. Ambrose Bierce

Steve_freereeder

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2019, 03:07:35 PM »

Quick question which may have been answered on early strands
Sym.
So.
Written under the stave.  Am I right in thinking that normally Sym. = together (or chorus). and So. = solo
For context I think I have an ornamented song tune but cannot track it down, "Every Inch a Sailor"
A nearby tune is clearly based on a 1730 Henry Fielding ballad "Roast Beef of Old England" So this may have a similar source.

I'm pretty sure that Steve gave a definitive answer to this in discussions wrt the Buttrey ms. I believe it is short for "symphony" and, in earlier times meant played together, or in harmony. This meaning seems to have persisted, to an extent, after it was adopted as a noun to describe a particular musical  structure: The symphony.

Yes indeed. It's here.
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ChrisP

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2019, 05:31:11 PM »

One question. What is the VMP identifier for the ms? Sorry if this is obvious when you look in the right place, but I haven't found it.

Er.. Hadn't thought about it yet, but Roose is short and to the point. Could always change it later by find&replace, but the the most we would save would be three characters.
Incidentally, remember there are 1120 tunes, so #1 needs to be Roose.0001 and so on.

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2019, 05:34:02 PM »

Thanks Steve, I thought you had but couldn't locate it.
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Roger Hare

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2019, 07:57:08 PM »

There are some tunes in my batch which I cannot find anywhere on t'internet, which is pretty
cool. My absolute favourite so far is this one - it just made me (:) big-time:

Code: [Select]
X:1
T:Fresh Fish on Friday. Roose.0192
B:Roose MS, poss. Manchester, mid-late 19th century.
Z:Village Music Project 2019 Roger Hare
M:C
L:1/8
Q:1/4=120
%R:Hornpipe ?
K:A
%What a crackin' little tune!!
%That triplet in bar 4 might sound 'better' as 'f/g/a'?
|: Aaag feac | Aaac BBdB | Aaag feac | (3fga ec B2 A2 :|
|: ceAe ceAe | dfce BcdB | ceAe ceAe | dfec B2 A2 :|

Do we know anything more about the Roose family? I'll be in the Music Library in Manchester tomorrow,
and am feeling inclined to have a good go at their catalogue to see if I can come up with anything...
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ChrisP

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2019, 09:28:17 PM »

MS John Roose,
4 Welcombe Street, Hulme, Manchester

Approximately 1120 tunes, very neat, quadrilles, minuets, polkas, hornpipes etc.

I can find no positive records on Ancestry of the family before the 1871 census.
There are several John Roose's in Derbyshire, beware of false trails.
The following census records were found by working backwards from the address in Hulme given in the manuscript, and birthplaces.
Codnor Park, next to Riddings village, is 2 miles east of Ripley, Derbs, 10 miles NNE of Derby
1871 Census 10 Arnside Village, Westmorland
Lodgers:-
John Roose[1], widower   39yrs   Rly. Labr. (Railway Labourer)   b. Ashover,Derbs
John[2]     u/m.      22yrs   Rly. Labr.   b. Codnor Park, Derbs.   
Thomas u/m      20yrs   Rly. Labr.   b. Winchester
This seems to be a widowed father John[1], born in Ashover Derbyshire about 1832, and his two grown-up two sons. The eldest, John[2] was born about 1849 not too far away in Codnor Park, which was at the time a very industrial area close to collieries, ironworks, brickworks and recently constructed railways. The second was born in far away Winchester around 1851, which was also the scene of ongoing major railway construction. By 1871 they were lodging in Westmorland as railway labourers, possibly in the construction of the Hincaster Branch of the Furness Railway, though the dates of its construction are a little vague and contradictory. The busiest days of railway civil engineering were past, but soon the Midland Railway would commence work on the nearby Settle- Carlisle line.
Nevertheless John[2] (junior) fancied a change of lifestyle from railway labouring, and by 1881 we find him as a Police Constable in Hulme, less than a mile to the south of Manchester city centre, where he had been since at least the time of the birth of his daughter Florence 13 Jan 1877. By this time he had parted from his father and brother and married, in 1874 in Manchester, Elizabeth Jane Walker (1843-1914) from Macclesfield. There he remained in the police force for at least the next 30 years. His son John[3] was listed as a musician in 1901 and in 1911.
1881 Census 4 Welcomb St. Hulme
John Roose[2]      30yrs   Police Cons.   b.Codnor Park, Derbs.
Elizabeth A?      36yrs         b. Macclesfield, Cheshire
Florence      3yrs         b. Hulme
John[3]      2yrs         b. Hulme
Charles         2months      b.Hulme

1891 Census 4 Welcomb St. Hulme
John Roose[2]      42yrs   Police Cons.(table)   b. Ridd Ings, Derbs.
Elizabeth J      38yrs         b. Macclesfield, Cheshire
Louisa         14yrs         b. Hulme
Florence      13yrs         b. Hulme
John[3]      12yrs         b.Hulme

1901 Census 4 Welcomb St. Hulme
John Roose[2]      52yrs   Police?      b. Codnor Park, Derbs.
Elizabeth J      55yrs
Florence      23yrs   Machinist
John[3]      22yrs   Musician   b.  Manchester

1911 Census 4 Welcomb St. Hulme Manchester
John Roose[2] head    62 yrs married 36 years 5 children born, 3 still living, 2 died Police pensioner, Riddings, Derbyshire
Elizabeth Jane Roose    68 yrs Macclesfield Cheshire
John Roose[3] son    32 yrs, single, musician (worker) Manchester

ChrisP

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2019, 09:55:21 PM »

There are some tunes in my batch which I cannot find anywhere on t'internet, which is pretty
cool. My absolute favourite so far is this one - it just made me (:) big-time:

Code: [Select]
X:1
T:Fresh Fish on Friday. Roose.0192
B:Roose MS, poss. Manchester, mid-late 19th century.
Z:Village Music Project 2019 Roger Hare
M:C
L:1/8
Q:1/4=120
%R:Hornpipe ?
K:A
%What a crackin' little tune!!
%That triplet in bar 4 might sound 'better' as 'f/g/a'?
|: Aaag feac | Aaac BBdB | Aaag feac | (3fga ec B2 A2 :|
|: ceAe ceAe | dfce BcdB | ceAe ceAe | dfec B2 A2 :|

Do we know anything more about the Roose family? I'll be in the Music Library in Manchester tomorrow,
and am feeling inclined to have a good go at their catalogue to see if I can come up with anything...
Hmm. This illustrates why I stopped speculating on what an R: field should say. The title does not suggest it's a hornpipe, and it looks like a 16 bar reel to me. Best say nowt and let the reader use it as they see fit.

Roger Hare

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2019, 06:00:47 AM »

MS John Roose,
4 Welcombe Street, Hulme, Manchester
etc...
Wow! Job done, thank you very much! I will use those last two census entries to see if there's anything
in the local history archive which is in the same building.

Hmm. This illustrates why I stopped speculating on what an R: field should say. The title does not suggest it's a hornpipe,
and it looks like a 16 bar reel to me. Best say nowt and let the reader use it as they see fit.
Aye, that's why I put the R:field in as a comment. My trouble is that I don't know my hornpipe  from my
elbow reel... Sounds OK given the hornpipe treatment though - the 'folk-music mangle' in operation...
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 06:11:26 AM by Roger Hare »
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Pete Dunk

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2019, 10:16:50 AM »

Hive mind, what is the third word in this tune title, I'm hopeless with things like this!

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ChrisP

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2019, 10:58:55 AM »

Looks like "Cow" to me....
I've made a page for the MS.
http://www.cpartington.plus.com/Links/Roose/RooseInfo.html

Pete Dunk

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2019, 11:13:58 AM »

I wondered about Cow but the capitalisation bothers me, the writing of the titles is otherwise very neat, precise and correct so why the capital? Here's a slightly better image.
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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2019, 01:04:16 PM »

Can't help with your 'Cow' problem, although given its context in the tune's title I think it might be a place name.

I'd just like to mention that I've found a couple of tunes in my batch are exact matches with tunes from Samuel, Ann & Peter Thompson – Complete Collection of 200 Favourite Country Dances, vol. 5 (London, 1788). Every detail is identical, which leads me to think the writer of the Roose MS copied out some tunes from this publication. I found the matches by searching titles in http://abcnotation.com/search and could then use the abc notation already created by other kind souls.
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