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Author Topic: unusual (?) concert pitch setting  (Read 634 times)

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RogerT

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unusual (?) concert pitch setting
« on: June 01, 2019, 08:29:16 AM »

Anyone on here ever come across instruments tuned to 441.5Hz concert pitch (CP)...by design I mean?
That is what is being claimed (by somebody who contacted me) and my immediate rationalisation is that that the instrument (a PA) was tuned to 442 and the 0.5 drop is the difference between blocks out and in the case. So I'm curious to hear of other's experience.

Theo

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Re: unusual (?) concert pitch setting
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2019, 08:47:11 AM »

I doubt that the difference between blocks in and out would be consistent enough to allow someone to measure a difference of 0.5 cent.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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RogerT

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Re: unusual (?) concert pitch setting
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2019, 08:50:06 AM »

Well..quite...though it's 0.5 Hz, which is pretty small. If they were trying to establish the CP i'm struggling to see how they would identify 441.5...and anyway, why would a manufacturer (for instance) deliberately tune to 441.5? 
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 08:58:56 AM by RogerT »
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Theo

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Re: unusual (?) concert pitch setting
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2019, 09:09:25 AM »

Probably best to keep an open mind until you can check for yourself.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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RogerT

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Re: unusual (?) concert pitch setting
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2019, 11:56:16 AM »

Interesting subtleties here...using a tone generator and Dirks tuner...
Difference between A440 and 441 = 3.8cents, 440 and 42 = 7.5cents, 440 and 41.5 = 5.6cents, 441 and 41.5 = 1.9cents.
So 442 is a perceptibly (just) a *bit* sharper than 440. I suppose it sounds much sharper (than a 440 tuned instrument) when/if you add in M+ reed.

playandteach

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Re: unusual (?) concert pitch setting
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2019, 05:35:10 PM »

I'd say 442 was noticeably sharper than 440. Slot of modern orchestral instruments are built to play at 440 with minimal warming up. 442 is quite common for concert pianos to save the blushes of modern wind sections. I don't think anyone deliberately aims for 0.5 of a Hertz.
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RogerT

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Re: unusual (?) concert pitch setting
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2019, 06:18:30 PM »

You'd have thought so, but 7.5cents isn’t a huge jump. When you play a 442 MM+ box with 440 tuned instruments then it is more noticeable, probably because the perceived pitch is the difference between 442 and (say, for a medium tremolo) 445 or even more.

playandteach

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Re: unusual (?) concert pitch setting
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2019, 06:40:06 PM »

I'm sure you're right, but I've seen rows drag on about someone playing at 442 instead of 440, and the other way round. It's a big enough difference to lose your job over if you are stubborn enough not to shift. That is of course on instruments that you can adjust as you play. Of course you are right about the tremolo etc. Talk to a harp player about orchestral pitch. Concerts start at 7.30 sharp and finish at 9.30 even sharper.
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Re: unusual (?) concert pitch setting
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2019, 06:58:16 PM »

I'm sure you're right, but I've seen rows drag on about someone playing at 442 instead of 440, and the other way round. It's a big enough difference to lose your job over if you are stubborn enough not to shift. That is of course on instruments that you can adjust as you play. Of course you are right about the tremolo etc. Talk to a harp player about orchestral pitch. Concerts start at 7.30 sharp and finish at 9.30 even sharper.

And 4 in the bar by 9.40..........  >:E :|glug
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