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Author Topic: Preparation for workshops  (Read 10324 times)

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playandteach

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Preparation for workshops
« on: June 26, 2019, 12:52:51 PM »

With the comments from recent melodeon weekends, I'm interested in knowing how people feel about workshops on courses: specifically in whether tunes should be learnt in advance. This is not about getting the levels right, but making sure that the sessions achieve what they should for any group of players.

These are my options for you to choose from:
1 I would rather not have any advance work to do... we are busy people, and I want a fun time without the pressure.
2 I like to have audio recordings / sheet music in advance, but not an expectation to learn the tunes.
3 I like to do some work in advance so that I can keep up, but I'm not expecting others to be able to play the tunes already. In fact I prefer it if they can't.
4 I find that I learn the tunes because then we can work on interpretation and technique, but a significant  number of other attendees don't, so the workshop is less productive for me than I'd hoped.
5 I find the tutors often change their mind on the day, but having had the music to practise in advance gives me a heads up about the sort of music I will encounter.
6 I prefer audio files to learn from.
7 I prefer sheet music to learn from.
8 I prefer video close ups of the tutor demonstrating to learn from
9 I like to have the resources a long time in advance - so that I can enjoy looking forward to the event and take care to prepare
10 I like to have the resources a short time in advance - so that I and others can't be expected to polish them.

These are not supposed to be in any order, and you can select any combination.
This might also inform my own teaching, but will give me an insight in what to expect in other workshops I might attend.
I suspect that tutors are happy with any response, but presume that they would prefer all learners to approach the sessions in a similar way - what do you do with the person who has learnt the tunes, when you are still explaining which button to start on for others?
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Nigel

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Re: Preparation for workshops
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2019, 01:16:12 PM »

It seems that you intend to become a workshop tutor - I know that you're a music teacher. I'm sure that it will be good if you do so.
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Rick St. John

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Re: Preparation for workshops
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2019, 01:22:31 PM »

Well, I'm very new to this game and I've only been to one workshop so far...

I find it difficult to plump for any of your categories completely, so this is a free-form answer which you can translate into some combination of categories

I was glad to have the tunes to beforehand so I could concentrate on the new ideas rather than trying to learn the tunes in the workshop. I feel it's probably impossible to get everyone to learn them beforehand. People learn at different rates and have different amounts of available practice time. Also, different people find different things difficult or "impossible". I feel the optimum thing would be for the teacher to assume familiarity with the tunes but not insist on complete mastery

As for format, I would prefer ABC, which is simple to distribute and easy to convert into either audio or a score. I learn mostly by ear but occasionally it's helpful to be able to see the score

RsJ
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David Colpitts

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Re: Preparation for workshops
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2019, 01:48:40 PM »

Nor can I pick one “cleanly” over the others, but 2 and 6 would cover me, I think.  As an ears-only learner, it helps me a lot to have some semblance of tune in my head, so I can work on mechanics and interpretation at the workshop.  But I especially appreciate brief email contact with the instructor, to find their preference, too.  I know everyone is busy, but most all (over just the few years I have been learning) seem happy to respond, and the responses have been all over:  “Here’s a likely list,” and “Have you heard my latest CD?” and “I don’t know ‘til I meet the class” and “I prefer you not know the tune in advance.”

Actually, I must admit that this discussion, for me personally, also very much includes “getting the levels right.”  Example: the very instructor who prefers we not know the tune in advance also told me that the “Intermediate” category includes people being prepped for Ireland competitions!  I’ll be surprised if I can be even “low intermediate” without the tune in my head for starters, but it’s an adventure I look forward to with a sort of giddy anxiety!

Regards,

David

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Chris Rayner

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Re: Preparation for workshops
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2019, 01:54:00 PM »

2, on the whole.  You also make no mention of abc notation.  This perversion is widespread among melodeonists.

The longer answer is: it depends.  Some workshops concentrate on particular tunes and styles of music.  In them advanced copies of the music required is obviously beneficial.  There are others in which the emphasis is upon style of playing and technique.  These generally use well known tunes, and the need for music is less.  Still nice to have the option.
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Clawhammer

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Re: Preparation for workshops
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2019, 01:59:15 PM »

Numbers 2, 6 and 8 (said the non-note reader).  Thanks.
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Dick Sadler

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Re: Preparation for workshops
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2019, 02:44:29 PM »

3 and 7. On the basis that I like to have some idea beforehand as to whether I am at a suitable level for the course.
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Wicked Lady

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Re: Preparation for workshops
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2019, 02:53:18 PM »

2,3,7 and 10 mainly. Quite happy to either read the dots or learn by ear on the day.
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Theo

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Re: Preparation for workshops
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2019, 02:58:24 PM »

I have usually chosen a workshop that is run by a tutor who’s playing I like.  I prefer not to have music distributed beforehand, not because I’m too lazy or busy to learn in advance, but because I want to learn it from the tutor with the tutors style and method.  I’ve been to workshops where tunes were learned in advance and a lot of un-learning can be required. I find that can be harder than just learning the tune, and there is often a less confident player or three somewhere in the group who insist on playing they way they have already learned.

What I like best is to spend plenty of time on developing one tune. I can learn tunes for myself at any time,  but to get a deep insight into a tutors playing is something that takes time with the tutor.
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playandteach

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Re: Preparation for workshops
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2019, 03:36:01 PM »

2, on the whole.  You also make no mention of abc notation.  This perversion is widespread among melodeonists.
Yes, I didn't miss it out on purpose, it's just that I've not seen it provided, and partly because now I think on it, that it is there in my mind as sheet music / audio recordings. Do people play directly from abc files, or only when they are converted to standard notation? It's not an area I've really explored.
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Re: Preparation for workshops
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2019, 03:45:46 PM »

2, on the whole.  You also make no mention of abc notation.  This perversion is widespread among melodeonists.
Yes, I didn't miss it out on purpose, it's just that I've not seen it provided, and partly because now I think on it, that it is there in my mind as sheet music / audio recordings. Do people play directly from abc files, or only when they are converted to standard notation? It's not an area I've really explored.

In 30 years of attending, and latterly teaching, I've never known a workshop where people play directly from ABC files. It's always a combination/permutation of sheet music in standard notation, audio files and learning/playing by ear.

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george garside

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Re: Preparation for workshops
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2019, 04:37:52 PM »

speaking as one who has attended many workshops  and also as an experienced workshop leader at some major festivals  we all have our own individual style of  running workshops  and of developing our individual styles  both from the feedback we receive form our own workshops and also ' pinching good ideas' from workshops led by others.

Speaking personally my workshop presentation style and content has been honed over the years by very welcome feedback  and constructive criticism by participants.

I think it is best left to   workshop leaders to  decide, on the basis of accrued experience, how to format a particular workshop  and that seeking opinion as in the questionnaire  and attempting to  cater for diverse opinions of what is and isn't best, going to work well or whatever would place the workshop leader in an impossible position '' you can only please some of the people some of the time and certainly not all of the people all of the time!'

but we aim to do our best!

george ;) :||: :|||: :|glug

george
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richard.fleming

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Re: Preparation for workshops
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2019, 05:23:42 PM »

Might be useful to know if a workshop aimed
- to teach some new tunes
-or to work on learning by ear
 -or to work on style
-or to concentrate on technique
-and so on
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Helena Handcart

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Re: Preparation for workshops
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2019, 05:31:21 PM »

Quote from: Steve_freereeder
In 30 years of attending, and latterly teaching, I've never known a workshop where people play directly from ABC files. It's always a combination/permutation of sheet music in standard notation, audio files and learning/playing by ear.

Sure, but abc gives you all of those in one neat and tiny text file.  Some may not want to engage with the technology but for those who do sheet music and sound files (albeit basic ones) can be produced from abc but you can't get abc from a pdf without a lot of re-typing. Abc would far and away be my preference and I find that those who don't use it often don't understand how easy, cheap and flexible it is and can usually be easily converted.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Preparation for workshops
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2019, 06:03:12 PM »

2, on the whole.  You also make no mention of abc notation.  This perversion is widespread among melodeonists.


As P&T says ABC notation is sheet music. It's a convenient way of communicating it electronically, because you can score simple tunes very quickly and the file sizes are tiny. However, everyone I know personally sticks it in an editor and reads the sheet music. This is why melodeonists love it and how they use it. I think Lester may be an exception. See his page on it.
http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/page,abc.html

[More correctly, Lester is exceptional  ;D ]

There are many thousands of tunes available for free and easily found, in ABC form, on the net.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 06:14:43 PM by Tone Dumb Greg »
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Preparation for workshops
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2019, 06:10:54 PM »

wrt the question
I don't think any of the 10 given options apply to the workshops I have done.
The winning option is to learn to pick up tunes, quickly, by ear. Still working on it.
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Lester

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Re: Preparation for workshops
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2019, 06:13:01 PM »

I think Lester may be an exception.
You are not the first person to say that.

Steve_freereeder

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Re: Preparation for workshops
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2019, 06:43:50 PM »

I think it is best left to   workshop leaders to  decide, on the basis of accrued experience, how to format a particular workshop  and that seeking opinion as in the questionnaire  and attempting to  cater for diverse opinions of what is and isn't best, going to work well or whatever would place the workshop leader in an impossible position '' you can only please some of the people some of the time and certainly not all of the people all of the time!'

but we aim to do our best!
Exactly, George!

Quote from: Steve_freereeder
In 30 years of attending, and latterly teaching, I've never known a workshop where people play directly from ABC files. It's always a combination/permutation of sheet music in standard notation, audio files and learning/playing by ear.

Sure, but abc gives you all of those in one neat and tiny text file.  Some may not want to engage with the technology but for those who do sheet music and sound files (albeit basic ones) can be produced from abc but you can't get abc from a pdf without a lot of re-typing. Abc would far and away be my preference and I find that those who don't use it often don't understand how easy, cheap and flexible it is and can usually be easily converted.

Often my workshop material is generated from an ABC file, but that is only the start of producing several pages of stuff (which is what might be needed for a weekend-long workshop). Helena, you've been in some of my workshops - you know how detailed I sometime like/need to annotate the music to indicate suggested fingerings, alternative chords, counter-melodies, bass runs, etc. Plus text paragraphs to indicate tune sources, variations, copyright and other acknowledgements.

There may well be more than one tune on a single page. Finally, depending on which organisation is running the event, there will be page headers and footers to add in a particular house style. So the final PDF that the participants end up with is nearly always a multi-stage montage produced in various bits of software. Here's an example workflow:

Initial ABC --> generate interim PDF --> import e.g. to Word or (more usually) Powerpoint --> add extra text, bits of staves, etc., as required --> resize, realign and generally make it look good on the page --> convert to final PDF ready for distribution to organisers and participants. And that's just one page!

The advent of Musescore in the last few years has made the job of producing professional quality workshop material very much easier, as ABC files can be imported directly and edited as needed. It is also possible to export ABC files from Musescore, slightly more of a faff, but it can be done reasonably easily.
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tiny

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Re: Preparation for workshops
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2019, 06:57:52 PM »

I have only ever attended one weekend of workshops.

 I booked into intermediate / advanced.  It is difficult to know if you have placed yourself in the right category and for that reason I worked hard on the tunes beforehand thinking that the workshop would be about interpretation, harmony, alternative ways of playing the tune. Most of the other people on the course had not looked at the material and some did not know their way around the instrument as they should on this level.  The tutor was perplexed.  So based on my one and only experience I choose number 4.
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Howard Jones

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Re: Preparation for workshops
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2019, 07:38:37 PM »

I like to have some materials beforehand so I can listen to the tunes and get them into my head, but I don't want to do a lot of preparation as that defeats the purpose of the workshop. I might play it through a few times but I won't work on the details.  It's difficult to unlearn something once you've learned it a particular way.  It helps to know in advance what the tutor's expectations are, but they may not know themselves until they meet the group.

I prefer ABC, and if possible an audio file to provide some expression. I can't play from music, so if I get a pdf I have to copy it into ABC and play it back. I'd prefer the ABC file, which gives me all the options.

It's difficult when other players aren't up to the level they've entered themselves.  The trouble is many people reach a plateau, when they've been playing for a long time and don't consider themselves novices, but haven't been able to progress to the next level.  For some, a workshop will give them that opportunity, but others will just find themselves out of their depth.
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