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Author Topic: Hohner identification & age (removed Pokerwork from subject - as it isn't!)  (Read 3181 times)

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Tone Dumb Greg

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There are plenty of people on here who would argue against that solution.

I'm sure you're right about that. Though I wonder how many of them play B/C...  ;)

Very few, I'm sure. That's why I made sure I commented on what I play myself (I proclaim my ignorance of B/C and all semitone systems).  A lot of B/C players don't seem  to use basses much. However, the OP seems pretty keen.
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Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
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Helena Handcart

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There are plenty of people on here who would argue against that solution.

I'm sure you're right about that. Though I wonder how many of them play B/C...  ;)

There are also, I suspect, a substantial number who would agree with that solution amongst us lumpy D/G players too.
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David Summers

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Very few, I'm sure. That's why I made sure I commented on what I play myself (I proclaim my ignorance of B/C and all semitone systems).  A lot of B/C players don't seem  to use basses much. However, the OP seems pretty keen.
Well OP is a choral singer, who wished he knew more about music when he started out singing  ;)

His new toy, a BC button accordion, is treated mainly as a bit of fun. But if approached with some thought from the outset, can avoid some holes, and have some tricks to play. I'm always surprised how a bit of thought gives ways of avoiding pot holes.

After all how cool would it be, if after singing a song whilst playing along with the accordion using only right hand, if an instrumental verse was done, with the full chord experience. Now on a BC box, its clear that can only be done with thought from the outset - best done in a major key, one of A C D or G.

Today may move onto simple tunes in G; all so far have been in C.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 12:13:26 PM by David Summers »
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Lester

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There are plenty of people on here who would argue against that solution.

I'm sure you're right about that. Though I wonder how many of them play B/C...  ;)

There are also, I suspect, a substantial number who would agree with that solution amongst us lumpy D/G players too.
Exactly
All my fourth apart boxes are either no-thirds or have a thirds stop which is down for thirds out as thats how it is set 95% of the time.

Tone Dumb Greg

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There are plenty of people on here who would argue against that solution.

I'm sure you're right about that. Though I wonder how many of them play B/C...  ;)

There are also, I suspect, a substantial number who would agree with that solution amongst us lumpy D/G players too.
Exactly
All my fourth apart boxes are either no-thirds or have a thirds stop which is down for thirds out as thats how it is set 95% of the time.

That's me back in my minority of one, then  ;D
I think my point, really, is that that is good to have a choice of options. It's worth getting to know "complete chord" solutions when they're available.
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Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

tirpous

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It doesn't need to be all black or all white.  If taping the thirds off, it's an option to remove only some of them and keep 3-note chords too.  I have a B/C that's set up like that.

Minority within a minority  (:)
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Tone Dumb Greg

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It doesn't need to be all black or all white.  If taping the thirds off, it's an option to remove only some of them and keep 3-note chords too.  I have a B/C that's set up like that.

Minority within a minority  (:)

So, when you decide which to tape and which to leave, is that based on a pre-selection of which keys you want to play in?

On my pokerwork, I have the 3rd in my A chord taped off, but I, mostly, still play Am as C chord +A bass and I am thinking of untaping it.

I also have the 3rd in my B chord taped. I am wondering whether I should just commit to B minor being a more useful chord to me than B major (in contrast to A major, which is used a lot, playing in 2 sharp keys), take the tape off and flatten it to the minor 3rd (I know that there are some who seem to like the "crunch" they get from playing B major, but it's not a trick I use. It just sounds wrong, whether in one sharp, or two sharp keys).

I imagine that the further you get from 1 or 2 sharp playing, the more you benefit from taping thirds.
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Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

tirpous

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Quote
So, when you decide which to tape and which to leave, is that based on a pre-selection of which keys you want to play in?

Could be that, or you could remove any third that proves annoying/limiting in practice.
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Squeaky Pete

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A, B and E have no thirds on my pokerwork.
All taped out.
These days I try to double up the fifths.
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Poker work DG. Erica GC.
Something big, red and probably German in GCF.
Piles of other rubbish.
Now with added Darth.

David Summers

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So far, I've largely stayed quiet on the option of removing thirds from chords. On the one hand its a very inventive solution to playing in both Major and Minor Keys.

But what I find myself returning too, is the difference between Major and Minor keys, and songs written in each. Songs in a minor key, have a very different feel to in Major, and that is their joy - the difference. Now for all practical purposes, the important difference between Major and Minor, is the third (of the tonic) - is it major or minor; the tonic is the root of the song, but in the journey away from tonic, it goes via the third to give the major or minor feel. This is what happens in a simple tune.

Chords though bring in a third dimension, every chord is either minor or major (from the third from the root). Most songs in major or minor, tend to do long held notes, ends of lines, etc in a chord that reflects the major/minor - this can be done even in diatonic scales, with inversions as needed. What this means is that a chorded song can be tied to major/minor at almost any point in the song. Its always there, unlike a simple tune where its only on the passage via the third of the key that the major/minor comes out.

So where do I stand on removing the third from chords, well it must be a loss - to loose the major/minor, and just have the tonic and 3/2 harmonic (fifth). The depth of the chord has been removed, a chord without a triad is a lesser chord. But such chords can be used in both Major and Minor tunes - so flexability is gained.

I think I end up, in a position of understanding why some boxes have stops, and some huge great banks of bass/chord buttons, with every option possible. Which of course doesn't answer as to if chord should have the third removed - I don't think that question has an answer; or rather both answers have elements of being both right and wrong - neither answer is better than the other, they are just different answers ...
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Squeaky Pete

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This is half the fun/problem/challenge of your chosen instrument. As a simple lightweight box, there are a lot of limitations that can be addressed by adding more weight and complexity.
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Poker work DG. Erica GC.
Something big, red and probably German in GCF.
Piles of other rubbish.
Now with added Darth.

Peadar

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This is half the fun/problem/challenge of your chosen instrument. As a simple lightweight box, there are a lot of limitations that can be addressed by adding more weight and complexity.
Or you just live with the limitations. It's like choosing between scythe and strimmer to cut bracken on steeply sloping ground. There is a point at which it costs more effort to carry the extra weight of the strimmer up the hill than it does to swing the scythe when you get there.
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It's not MAD...just stress management:  Antoria: 3-Stop A. Hohner 1040-G  Chanson:C. Hohner AD and then there's the workshop.

Tone Dumb Greg

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So far, I've largely stayed quiet on the option of removing thirds from chords. On the one hand its a very inventive solution to playing in both Major and Minor Keys.

But what I find myself returning too, is the difference between Major and Minor keys, and songs written in each. Songs in a minor key, have a very different feel to in Major, and that is their joy - the difference. Now for all practical purposes, the important difference between Major and Minor, is the third (of the tonic) - is it major or minor; the tonic is the root of the song, but in the journey away from tonic, it goes via the third to give the major or minor feel. This is what happens in a simple tune.

Can't remember if it's already been mentioned, but the thirds stop is actually very effective because your ears fill in the missing thirds from the melody. My reservations about thirds removal are to do with the loss of richness in the basses. Thirds stops are a very effective way of providing harmonies without adding a lot of weight. So are Am7 when available.
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Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu
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