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Author Topic: Hohner identification & age (removed Pokerwork from subject - as it isn't!)  (Read 3853 times)

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David Summers

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The chords should all match the bass notes, but walking the bass chords through the same sequence, and they are all over the place. The GD chords aren't the same when repeated, in particular the two G chords are way different, almost like one is missing the low note ... Anyway will take some time this afternoon to try and work out what I actually have on those chords.
So have half convinced myself that on one of the G chord buttons, one of the notes isn't firing. If I can get the grill off (less easy that the trebble side) I guess I can easilly check by covering one of the holes through to the reeds? Is this the easiest method, or pulling the pins to look directly at the reeds?
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Gena Crisman

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Well, the quote unquote easiest method is probably using a spectrum analyser program on a smart phone or computer with a microphone, and checking if three fundamentals show up. But, principally yes you can also isolate the holes or otherwise interfere with the box to discover one way or the other.
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David Summers

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Hmmm yes good idea. First question is how to record on computer - yes guess my tablet has a method.

Analysis is easy, I already use https://www.sonicvisualiser.org/ for turning songs into sheet music ...
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Thanks TDG and SF - this are the kind or recommendations I'm after so the acorn bags are £10 more than the CGM bags, but two excellent reviews here says that the £10 is money well spent. Thanks for this, otherwise I'd question why £10 extra ...

A third option is the bags Eagle Music sell

https://www.eaglemusicshop.com/prod/squeezebox-gig-bags-hard-cases/mally-bag.htm

I have two of the "Mally" shoulder bags. They are ok, but if you're out and about a lot the Fuselli rucksacks are my preference.
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Greg Smith
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It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Hmmm yes good idea. First question is how to record on computer - yes guess my tablet has a method.

Analysis is easy, I already use https://www.sonicvisualiser.org/ for turning songs into sheet music ...

Most computers have built in microphones, which can be better than  you expect. Get yourself  usable audio recording software. Audacity is genuinely free and pretty good. The best you could wish for in a lot of circumstances. Then you need to learn how to use it...
https://www.audacityteam.org/
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Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

invadm

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[/quote]

A third option is the bags Eagle Music sell

https://www.eaglemusicshop.com/prod/squeezebox-gig-bags-hard-cases/mally-bag.htm

I have two of the "Mally" shoulder bags. They are ok, but if you're out and about a lot the Fuselli rucksacks are my preference.
[/quote]
Pete also sells small gig bag for cast lili size, it fits the poke work like a glove  ;) if you don't need extra room get one of his.
or you can get a record case (50LP) new from amazon or ebay good size with extra room 
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David Summers

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I've asked Pete about getting one of his Fuselli bags, but not heard back. People here reviewed them so well that it would be good to give him business.

Anyway if I don't hear back, found another source of fuselli bags. Think fuselli is what I want, as keeping an ancient accordion going for another century ...
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Steve_freereeder

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I've asked Pete about getting one of his Fuselli bags, but not heard back. People here reviewed them so well that it would be good to give him business.

Anyway if I don't hear back, found another source of fuselli bags. Think fuselli is what I want, as keeping an ancient accordion going for another century ...
Pete is normally very prompt and efficient in replying to enquiries. Perhaps your message got lost somehow.
You could try again perhaps?
e-mail: info@acorninstruments.co.uk
tel: 01347 811199
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Steve
Sheffield, UK.
www.lizziedripping.org.uk

David Summers

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Pete is normally very prompt and efficient in replying to enquiries. Perhaps your message got lost somehow.
You could try again perhaps?
e-mail: info@acorninstruments.co.uk
tel: 01347 811199
Yes think thats the email address I used, I'll check when I get home. People have time away from the job, and guess thats what happened. Anyway if I don't hear from him in a few days, I'll PM him on here,
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Steve_freereeder

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Pete is normally very prompt and efficient in replying to enquiries. Perhaps your message got lost somehow.
You could try again perhaps?
e-mail: info@acorninstruments.co.uk
tel: 01347 811199
Yes think thats the email address I used, I'll check when I get home. People have time away from the job, and guess thats what happened. Anyway if I don't hear from him in a few days, I'll PM him on here,
I was talking to Pete a short while ago. He says he replied to your enquiry the same day. Re-check your e-mails perhaps?
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Steve
Sheffield, UK.
www.lizziedripping.org.uk

David Summers

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I was talking to Pete a short while ago. He says he replied to your enquiry the same day. Re-check your e-mails perhaps?
Odd - I'll check when I get home. Was out most of yesterday evening (folk choir) so only checked emails quickly when I got home.
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invadm

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I was talking to Pete a short while ago. He says he replied to your enquiry the same day. Re-check your e-mails perhaps?
Odd - I'll check when I get home. Was out most of yesterday evening (folk choir) so only checked emails quickly when I got home.
I am suppressed you didn't get the bag following day from Pete ,excellent service and fast delivery usually.
if any one after a stronger hard case this are good too ;
 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Popamazing-Record-Collection-Flight-Storage/dp/B075MY45HR/ref=sr_1_12?adgrpid=53552666299&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwLXpttSs4wIVCYbVCh2XXQQWEAAYASAAEgLL7vD_BwE&hvadid=259053120629&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9045990&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=e&hvrand=1311619319338428800&hvtargid=kwd-28607546&hydadcr=172_1786968&keywords=lp+case&qid=1562841009&s=gateway&sr=8-12     
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David Summers

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I was talking to Pete a short while ago. He says he replied to your enquiry the same day. Re-check your e-mails perhaps?
Found the email, yes sent it at 9:29 this morning, and I left for work at about 7am, so have only just picked it up.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 07:01:50 PM by David Summers »
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David Summers

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I was talking to Pete a short while ago. He says he replied to your enquiry the same day. Re-check your e-mails perhaps?
Found the email, yes sent it at 9:29 this morning, and I left for work at about 7am, so have only just picked it up.
And order just placed with Pete, come across as an honest guy.
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David Summers

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Well, the quote unquote easiest method is probably using a spectrum analyser program on a smart phone or computer with a microphone, and checking if three fundamentals show up. But, principally yes you can also isolate the holes or otherwise interfere with the box to discover one way or the other.
OK - assuming I'd done the recording and sound analsys correctly:

Good G
G - G2 G3 D4
G+ - G3 B3 D4

Good D
D -  D2 D3 A3 D4
D+ - A3 D4 F#4

Bad G
G - G2 G3
G+ - B3 D4 G4

Bad D
D -  D2 D3
D+ - D4 F#4 A4

So good D chord is inverted
Bad G is doubly inverted

Are inversion like this normal ?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 07:35:02 PM by David Summers »
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Gena Crisman

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Chord inversions are pretty common, since the chord changes with the in and out, it can help reed responsiveness and performance to have the push and pull reeds that make up the chord be closer together in frequency. D4/A4 F#4/C#5 A4/E5 most likely wont perform as well or as evenly as D4/C#4 F#4/E4 A4/A4.

I wouldn't worry so much about the fundamental buttons - my guess is you're probably reporting bits of the harmonic series with G2 G3 D4.

But based on your results here, it seems like all the notes of the chord are 'present'. If you are confident that all the notes are present, you might still be well served by going back to your original plan, isolating each hole and thus reed, and checking they're not working incorrectly somehow.
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Theo

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That doesn’t make sense for example if I’m understanding you:

Good G
G - G2 G3 D4 this is the bass? Hohner basses only have two reeds so the D is just the harmonic of one of the G reeds.

G+ - G3 B3 D

The only way to be sure which pitches are in each cord is to take the reed block out and sound each reed individually.

The pull and push G chords on a Hohner GC are normally different inversions. 

Has the instrument recently been tuned?  If not then the “bad” chord may be out if tune.



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Well, the quote unquote easiest method is probably using a spectrum analyser program on a smart phone or computer with a microphone, and checking if three fundamentals show up. But, principally yes you can also isolate the holes or otherwise interfere with the box to discover one way or the other.
Tried with a pc spectrum analyser and I got a third frequency which was plausible but way off tune. Took a while to discover that it was an artifact. It was a while ago but I don't think it was an obvious sum or difference frequency. Took the box apart to find out what was going on... only two reeds.
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David Summers

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Hopefully tomorrow I'll do frequency responses on all bass keys, and see if I can take a snap shot of the frequencies - they were surprisingly clean.

Also see if I can get the power in each frequency, its not something I usually do. But as usual beyond the fundamental there are harmonics everywhere ...
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Gena Crisman

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The only way to be sure which pitches are in each cord is to take the reed block out and sound each reed individually.

Well I mean, the purpose here was to identify if one of the chords simply wasn't complete. I know if I saw a spectrogram similar to one I've attached but most notes from the top row and one from the bottom, it would stand out, and I'd probably be saying 'I think one of the notes may be missing', without actually having to do anything like touch a screwdriver or pair of pliers, so, I personally found this 'easy'. Attached is G D C C D A B Em from the Oakwood 3v I'm playing, top with thirds on, bottom with thirds out, same zoom level (despite the y scale numbers being trash, they are indeed both the same zoom).

The usefulness of a spectrogram pretty much stops here, though.

Has the instrument recently been tuned?  If not then the “bad” chord may be out if tune.

Yeah, physical tests and checking the tuning while you're at it is the way to go here, I would think. However, I'd probably slide long strips of paper with tactically cut holes in under the bass pallets rather than open the box up as I don't have a tuning bench. There is something to be said for an actual visual inspection of the reeds, though.

edit - I should add, it's probably a good idea for David to pay close attention to the people who's vocation has at some point been 'fixing free reed instruments' instead of just 'know-it-all computer whizz', so, uh, I'd advise following Theo/Lester/Steve/et al's advice rather than go down a(n even deeper) spectrogram hole
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 10:07:47 PM by Gena Crisman »
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