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Author Topic: By ear, by notes, by hook or by crook?  (Read 7237 times)

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Winston Smith

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Re: By ear, by notes, by hook or by crook?
« Reply #80 on: July 05, 2019, 07:59:15 PM »

But all that does is play an octave higher! And, surely after 5 years of classes, most players would know how to play, and be used to playing, in the higher octave anyway?
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: By ear, by notes, by hook or by crook?
« Reply #81 on: July 05, 2019, 08:09:28 PM »

Yes but we normally play in the first position and moving up is a new skill. It works differently!
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I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: By ear, by notes, by hook or by crook?
« Reply #82 on: July 05, 2019, 08:58:40 PM »

But all that does is play an octave higher! And, surely after 5 years of classes, most players would know how to play, and be used to playing, in the higher octave anyway?

On an MM box the upper octave on a D/G is pretty squeaky. Some might move up for the sake of versatility, but, mostly, I can't be bothered. I prefer to invest the time in investigating the octave below, when I move away from octave 5. Mind you, a lot of B parts spend more time in the upper octave. Generally speaking, playing is arranged differently by the people I play with. D/G to C/F is a straight transfer, though.
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Greg Smith
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Re: By ear, by notes, by hook or by crook?
« Reply #83 on: July 05, 2019, 09:13:29 PM »

Presumably revolving around the G being an octave lower on a GC therefore playing in the second position mostly?


Indeedy plus much more cross rowing

Winston Smith

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Re: By ear, by notes, by hook or by crook?
« Reply #84 on: July 05, 2019, 10:19:33 PM »

So, the G row on a G/C is like playing on only the middle two stops on a 1 row in G. I knew that from the Hering G/C which I had a few tears ago. I'll bow to greater knowledge and experience, but I still cannot see where, or why, that should be a problem.
But never mind, you can get back to the more rational and reasoned discussion now, thanks all.
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Squeaky Pete

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Re: By ear, by notes, by hook or by crook?
« Reply #85 on: July 05, 2019, 10:25:44 PM »

First stop.
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Re: By ear, by notes, by hook or by crook?
« Reply #86 on: July 05, 2019, 10:43:51 PM »

Surely not, Pete?

My 4 stop is configured (3rd button G)
G2
G3
G3+
G4
Last night, I had to play on my highest voice in order to be lost among the clamour of the 2 rows. I'm sure my old G/C was 3rd button G3.
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Squeaky Pete

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Re: By ear, by notes, by hook or by crook?
« Reply #87 on: July 05, 2019, 10:50:42 PM »

G row on a GC is an octave below the G row on a DG.
I have a Vienna type one row in F which is even lower but you couldn't possibly play it to dance to.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: By ear, by notes, by hook or by crook?
« Reply #88 on: July 05, 2019, 10:59:52 PM »

Surely not, Pete?

My 4 stop is configured (3rd button G)
G2
G3
G3+
G4
Last night, I had to play on my highest voice in order to be lost among the clamour of the 2 rows. I'm sure my old G/C was 3rd button G3.

I suppose that means that all the tunes you learn in G on a D/G have to be played as if they were in D on a G/C. Then they have to be played an octave up. It's a long way from impossible, but it's not the same. Just means  you have to relearn them. Trouble is, it doesn't help you play a G/C with other G/C players. Different experience. I may be floundering here, but I know what I mean.
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Re: By ear, by notes, by hook or by crook?
« Reply #89 on: July 05, 2019, 11:02:18 PM »

When I started on G/C I was helped by my years of playing one row, because I was well used to playing in both octaves and can usually swop from one to the other with no problem. However the massive increase in cross row playing on G/C, compared with my D/G style did fry my brain! In my opinion D/G and C/F are pretty close and can be played in much the same way but G/C is significantly different and requires a different approach.
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Re: By ear, by notes, by hook or by crook?
« Reply #90 on: July 05, 2019, 11:15:03 PM »

Greg and Tufty have pretty much summed it up.
Though I'm surprised someone thought as proficient after 5 years of lessons needed more to achieve this.
When I played GC a lot I was never a lead instrument. I was always behind pipes fiddles and hurdygurdies.
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Re: By ear, by notes, by hook or by crook?
« Reply #91 on: July 05, 2019, 11:24:47 PM »

I suspect that the playing in the lower register is only part of it, as that wouldn't require unlearning the top end. It's more likely to do with playing larger chunks of the phrases in one direction and cross rowing. Actually that's all additional technique too, but probably the reason that she wants to continue lessons. That's the opposite problem for me as I didn't start on DG, and I'd need to learn to play on the row more.
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Peadar

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Re: By ear, by notes, by hook or by crook?
« Reply #92 on: July 06, 2019, 12:38:34 AM »

Surely not, Pete?

My 4 stop is configured (3rd button G)
G2
G3
G3+
G4
Last night, I had to play on my highest voice in order to be lost among the clamour of the 2 rows. I'm sure my old G/C was 3rd button G3.

I suppose that means that all the tunes you learn in G on a D/G have to be played as if they were in D on a G/C. Then they have to be played an octave up. It's a long way from impossible, but it's not the same. Just means  you have to relearn them. Trouble is, it doesn't help you play a G/C with other G/C players. Different experience. I may be floundering here, but I know what I mean.
When I got my sticky paws on a Melodeon Tutor I was confused....it hadn't occurred to me that the  3rd button G of my 1 row is an octave below that of the DG.....
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Re: By ear, by notes, by hook or by crook?
« Reply #93 on: July 27, 2019, 06:53:01 AM »

I love reading this thread! So interesting.  I had piano lessons as a youngster learning to read notes on the page much later in life I learned to play the piano accordion with music books and pages shared by other players. I can noodle around with a tune on my right hand keyboard but could never get the chords right I needed to see the bass notes to put it all together.  Now I'm playing the melodeon and I'm learning to play by ear which is like a dream come true. I want to be free of packing around music and stands and clips and....I still will use my piano to figure out a tune if I can get my hands on the music but then I go back to the melodeon and work it out  Now I can even look at a simple piece of music and play it on my box, but I don't plan on carrying it with me  If its a new to me tune I will play it on the piano first and then get it into my head so I can hum it then I transfer that to the box. I agree we are all different and we all have our own ways of learning and tools to get the job done
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george garside

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Re: By ear, by notes, by hook or by crook?
« Reply #94 on: July 27, 2019, 10:33:44 AM »

 thinking that playing in the upper octave on a DG is difficult is like putting a false restriction on what you can play.  The very simple way of getting over this is to practice scales using both octaves  without stopping.   When I am teaching DG I treat this as an integral part of the learning process from early on and  not as something difficult ( which it isn't.

Being fluent the full length of the keyboard  facilitates

playing tunes that sit accross both octaves
using the higher octave for part of a tune that the lower  notes doesn't go low enough for eg A part in lower octave and B part in higher octave
scope for more right hand chords
scope to beat an extra bit  of rhythm  in t'other octave with a 'spare'finger

etc etc

It can also help to practice the same tune in both lower and higher octave separately and then  together without a break, Click goes the shears  is a useful tune to practice this

george


« Last Edit: July 27, 2019, 10:54:58 AM by george garside »
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Sebastian

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Re: By ear, by notes, by hook or by crook?
« Reply #95 on: July 27, 2019, 02:52:52 PM »

the upper octave on a DG is difficult
… on the ears.  >:E
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Re: By ear, by notes, by hook or by crook?
« Reply #96 on: July 27, 2019, 03:17:13 PM »

the upper octave on a DG is difficult
… on the ears.  >:E

It's what three-voice (LMM) instruments are for.
(And third button start layouts)  >:E
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Rob Lands

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Re: By ear, by notes, by hook or by crook?
« Reply #97 on: July 28, 2019, 04:06:27 PM »

Agree with Steve as soon as you go LMM or LM the top octave calls - or just go to a GC.  Of course once you start you find yourself up there on MM's as well.
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Mike Hirst

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Re: By ear, by notes, by hook or by crook?
« Reply #98 on: August 03, 2019, 04:02:32 PM »

sometimes as an aid memoire for tunes without words it can help to make sum up - be they daft, vulgar or whatever.  I sometimes use this just  for the first line of a tune to sort of kickstart it

george

Apologies for coming late to the party.

I believe this is an important element of both oral tune transmission and tune memory.

My own collection includes:

"Old Mrs Huddledee,
come to bed to cuddle me.
Cock yer leg right over me,
to keep your belly warm-o"
= kafoozalum

"Tiddly wink old fella,
get a woman if you can.
If you can't get a woman,
get an old tin can.
If it wasn't for me name,
and it wasn't for me shame,
I'd let you have a go,
in a minute old man"
= Sailor's Hornpipe

"there was an old woman lived under the stairs,
she sold apples, she sold pears"
=Voulez Vous Danser

"Oh dear mother what a fool I be, etc."
=Lads a buncham

"This is this and that is that, etc"
=Winster Processional

"Cat's got the measles"
=Keel Row

"Old Molly Hare,
Pa shot a bear.
Shot him through the a*hole,
So he wouldn't harm a hair"
=Fairy Dance

.. there are many more.

P.S. If anyone is wondering about the tin can thing. This is a reference to a once common practice in army barracks (and other situations where men where deprived of female company). I am reliably informed that relief can be found through methods involving two slices of liver and a Cocoa tin.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2019, 04:25:26 PM by Mike Hirst »
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