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[Peadar]

What age do you start a child...particularly a grand child who shows an interest but whose parents don't play any istrument and have no instruments in the house.

Remembering that with a child you may only get one chance.

And what instrument would you start them with?

[richard.fleming]

Maybe you should ask the grandchild. Better a falling in love with an instrument than an arranged marriage.

[Steve_freereeder]

Children react to music and instruments in very different ways. However, they may not necessarily always be able to choose wisely for themselves.

I do highly recommend reading Atarah Ben-Tovim's book 'The Right Musical Instrument For Your Child'.

Aimed at parents particularly, it is a fascinating read and gives a profound insight into the practical and psychological issues which have a bearing on whether a child is likely to succeed or fail on any given instrument or groups of instruments. All types of instruments are considered (including accordions!)

Coming to it as an adult, it demonstrated retrospectively to me why, as a child, I failed to make much progress on the violin (which disappointed my grandfather who gave me his instrument) yet did very well on woodwind instruments.

[richard.fleming]

I repeat, you can analyse as much as you like but ideally it is as mysterious as falling in love. Either that or you do it because you've got pushy parents and you are then likely to give it up as soon as you can. I loved the sound of the Shand Morino years before I even saw an accordion of any kind. Johnny Connolly was eying up the melodeon in the cupboard for months, maybe years, before he managed to find the key to the cupboard when his parents were off at the curach races.

[Thrupenny Bit]

Their school may provide some options such as flute or violin and piano would give a basic musical grounding.
Folk festivals seem to be increasing their workshop options such as beginners melodeon, sometimes with a chance to borrow one for the workshops. Similarly, in the South West we have the folk arts centre Halsway Manor which gives a varied learning opportunity. I realise the OP is the opposite end of the country, but there might be similar organisations offering such opportunities.
Perhaps letting the person see and listen at sessions or folk events might trigger an interest in one direction?
Q

[smiley]

How old is the grandchild in question Peader?
My grandkids are 3 years and 1 year old, and they love to play with the cheap stringed and percussive instruments we leave around the house for them. Of course we play them too while we sing and dance together. The music from my button accordion really fascinates two of the 3 grandkids and I'm thinking of buying a toy melodeon (which I'd hopefully make a bit more tuneful) for them to experiment on.

The comment "Remembering that with a child you may only get one chance." doesn't gel with me. I think they'll keep learning as they experience different things as they go through life, so its not a case of one single opportunity being grabbed, or lost. I'm constantly amazed at the way little kids watch and learn. 

[playandteach]

I started both my kids on the piano about 4 or 5 years old, teaching them myself in tiny chunks. They both made some progress but wanted to change instruments at about 9 or 10. My son chose violin and my daughter chose the flute and we had very good local teachers. They did well. But stopped practising in 6th form.
Now both of them sit down and play the piano for fun. My son plays musicals for hours and my daughter plays Einaudi tunes. They're well equipped to pick up other instruments later on in life.
 For me it's a delicate balance between equipping them with enough technical control and discipline and letting them have a free choice about repertoire. I would advise against over exposure to your own fondness of styles of music and try to pick up on what they like. Theme tunes and YouTubers are often inspirational. I've learnt a lot from simply looking over my daughter's shoulder as she surfs YouTube and she's often impressed by very young girls working hard on dance or instruments.
One of the things that fills my heart is hearing my daughter play simple chords on the guitar and singing. Singing is a fantastic skill socially for school life and beyond and both my kids have enjoyed mixing with other great kids in this way.
I would think that there's little you can do for your grandkids without the express agreement from their parents. Perhaps if you can afford it, paying for lessons is the best help. Be alert to their own interests which may be in sport or art or dance so that your motivation is to support them rather than direct them, and have things lying around at your own home such as a decent ukulele, guitar, glockenspiel that they can pick up without fretting that they might damage it.
We can't control their eating habits, manners or reading material any more than musical growth and for me the most important thing would be to make sure they are keen to see you. The best way of doing that might be to be interested in their things and tastes, but to be on hand at opportune moments.
I know this sounds more like a lecture than an answer, sorry. Do keep us posted as to how it goes.

[Eshed]

The comment "Remembering that with a child you may only get one chance." doesn't gel with me. I think they'll keep learning as they experience different things as they go through life, so its not a case of one single opportunity being grabbed, or lost. I'm constantly amazed at the way little kids watch and learn.

This.
I had a few guitar lessons when I was 9 but didn't persevere. When I was 13 I picked it up again and haven't put it down since.

Give children an opportunity to start playing but don't force anyone or worry that they've missed the train.

[Theo]

The comment "Remembering that with a child you may only get one chance." doesn't gel with me. I think they'll keep learning as they experience different things as they go through life, so its not a case of one single opportunity being grabbed, or lost. I'm constantly amazed at the way little kids watch and learn.

This.
I had a few guitar lessons when I was 9 but didn't persevere. When I was 13 I picked it up again and haven't put it down since.

Give children an opportunity to start playing but don't force anyone or worry that they've missed the train.

Agree!

Though in my case the piano lessons I was told I must go to were a disaster, and i didn't seriously start to learn an instrument till in my mid 40s.  I did do plenty of choral sing though.

Whatever the instrument and genre, a child will only learn to play if they want to learn (so they need inspiration) and once they start to learn they need to experience some kind of success from early on so they are motivated to continue.

[David Summers]

To my mind, the kid has to enjoy whatever he/she does. To me that means doing things with their peers.

So what I'd do is look arround and what the good options are. Hopefully there is a good junior choir, or junior orchestra. If orchestra do they provide intrsuments, if so whats avaiable.

I'm tempted to say that formal lessons are probably a good idea, but again fun - e.g. the rigour or working through the grades, the repetion, the practice, is what brings competence, and with competence comes enjoyment.

If they take to it like a duck to water, then few years down the line, some lessons on the piano, would be helpful going forward - just getting to the stage where they can make the way round the keyboard, and read sheet music.

Learning these things as a child is a great time to do it. Just make sure they have fun though.

[Steve_freereeder]

To my mind, the kid has to enjoy whatever he/she does. To me that means doing things with their peers.

Atarah Ben-Tovim's book which I mentioned earlier explores this and also the opposite. Some children are gregarious and extrovert, while others are more introspective and contented with their own company more of the time. An instrument such as a trumpet or drum kit probably would not suit the latter child although they might do very well on the piano, harp or classical guitar. I think the melodeon and probably traditional music in general probably falls into the 'doing things with their peers' group. But not always.

She (the author) also goes into some depth about how each instrument 'feels' to be played. Children may or may not be comfortable with, for example, the buzziness of a brass instrument mouthpiece against their lips or of a clarinet mouthpiece and reed in their mouths, or the deep vibrations of certain instruments against their bodies. Similarly she looks into the physical requirements of various instruments, how heavy they are for a smaller child, finger size and spacing, etc. Parents simply may not be aware of these sorts of things.

Learning these things as a child is a great time to do it. Just make sure they have fun though.

Absolutely agree, especially with the 'fun' bit.

[Peadar]

Thanks for all the input so far...always good to get other folks perspectives.

Child in question is 6. I typically see him about once a fortnight when  call in to my daughter's house on the way back from  work when it has taken me to the mainland.

I gave him a toy melodeon soon after I started learning myself- and after I had taken  my "new toys" down to show daughter's partner.

The fun side - yes absolutely. Dorset 4 hand reel is undoubtedly his favourit tune from my limited repertoire...followed closely by twinkle twinkle (because we can sing it and he can almost play it)....then the scale (low octave) because he can play it - at least up the way. I think he's at the stage developmentally where getting a recognisable sound out of an instrument (including the scale) gives a sense of acheivement.

Further on in his school career there is the possibility of piping and fiddle tuition and Feisean nan Gaidheal (Feis an Earrach, held in the Easter holidays is the local one)offers group intrductions to a variety of instruments.  I found out a couple of days ago that they have in recent years added button boxes to the PA's-  as a result of demand from the Outer Isles and Ardnamurchan.  My own children unfortuneately were never involved with the Feisean . I think they probably cut in at about Primary 4/5 (9-10 year old) .

He want - at least some of the time to play his melodeon with me. Most effective here is if I have an identical box. If child has a 7 key (1st button start) and you have a 10key  (3rd start) they will press 3rd when you press third. This really came home to me on Tuesday night. I had broken the LH strap on my 7 key  and I only had my big (1040) box with me.

Smiley - most important thing with the toy melodeon is to put valves on reeds 4 & 5. As built only the bottom 3 reeds have valves (C4-A4) The next 2 need them.  i use my own "Toy" melodeon  qute a lot. It lives in the car and comes out for 5 minutes at lunch time (Where do I practice at full volume? Hiding behind a boulder 50 yards away from the nearest lay-by). It has it's advantages for me in improving bellows control but for a child, though small, the limited air supply together with air hungry and slow starting reeds make it quite difficult to sound.

(Too many ideas to respond all in quotes)

[Theo]

Smiley - most important thing with the toy melodeon is to put valves on reeds 4 & 5. As built only the bottom 3 reeds have valves (C4-A4) The next 2 need them.

You can also block off one whole bank of reeds so the box then only uses half the amount of air, and bellows management is much easier.

[Thrupenny Bit]

Wow, sounds like he is developing an interest in a very fun way, good for you!
With the option of organised tuition as he gets older, it sounds like he has the possibility and opportunity of becoming immersed in the tradition. How wonderful!
Q

[MikeK]

and so far,not a d/g box mentioned.

[richard.fleming]

and so far,not a d/g box mentioned.

Buidheachas do Dhia

[Peadar]

and so far,not a d/g box mentioned.

Don't Go there.

[playandteach]

Peadar, for the mismatch in button start (until you get a matching box) you could tape over your extra buttons just while playing together. I've heard of that being done by others.

[Peadar]

Peadar, for the mismatch in button start (until you get a matching box) you could tape over your extra buttons just while playing together. I've heard of that being done by others.

Might be worth a try. I have now repaired the straps on my own 7 key....and will try taping off one of the reed banks as Theo suggests.
He likes seeing inside the box so that might be do-able next time I see him....not convinced I want to give too much encouragement to a six year old fettler though. (Others may take a different view!)

[Winston Smith]

"not convinced I want to give too much encouragement to a six year old fettler though"

Mmmm! I don't know, though. The young pick up things up quickly, he might be able to make a fortune when all these old timers we have now start to shuffle off this mortal coil?