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Author Topic: Amplification/Midi  (Read 841 times)

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Rob Lands

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Amplification/Midi
« on: August 20, 2019, 10:59:26 AM »

At Sidmouth Scotland Accordions had a stand and were showing their MidiRig accordion electronic systems. As someone who has almost no knowledge of miking up a melodeon (I do have an old microvox system from the 1990's) I was wondering if anyone has experience of their systems.  They told me they were moving to providing melodeon systems as well as PA, I know they can have midi output and the instrument can have reeds in (or physically taken out), they said they could supply and convert boxes. Looking at their website they seem to have a miking option as well. Probably not for me but I was intrigued. They did have a live system in a BC (type) box that I had a little try on.  The websites are www.Midirig.com and www.ScotlandAccordions.co.uk
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David Summers

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Re: Amplification/Midi
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2019, 11:15:23 AM »

So by midi, do you mean they could detect every button push? I guess for a melodeon speed and pressure not needed; but still thats alot of wiring ...
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Amplification/Midi
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2019, 02:00:20 PM »

So by midi, do you mean they could detect every button push? I guess for a melodeon speed and pressure not needed; but still thats alot of wiring ...

Key pressure may just be switching but bellows pressure and direction is everything.
I have never heard of a simple mod to midi a melodeon. I suspect they mean adding audio pickups.
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Greg Smith
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Rob Lands

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Re: Amplification/Midi
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2019, 03:38:36 PM »

Nope, its the full job, bellows movement and "buttons".  The miking is something I didn't see at Sidmouth but think is mentioned on the website.
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Chris Brimley

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Re: Amplification/Midi
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2019, 07:23:12 PM »

Looking at the details in the Scotland Accordions website, it looks like you need a midi accordion to work the midi controller - otherwise, if it uses microphones from a reeded accordion, what's the point?  There's an example on their website of a Roland FR1B for sale, which gives you a midi output, and this may have a similar system to the FR18, but they seem to want to pair it up with audio speakers, so I'm not quite sure they are actually correcting the poor sound quality of the FR18 at source.  Still, worth looking into.
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Helena Handcart

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Re: Amplification/Midi
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2019, 09:10:06 PM »

Looking at the details in the Scotland Accordions website, it looks like you need a midi accordion to work the midi controller - otherwise, if it uses microphones from a reeded accordion, what's the point?  There's an example on their website of a Roland FR1B for sale, which gives you a midi output, and this may have a similar system to the FR18, but they seem to want to pair it up with audio speakers, so I'm not quite sure they are actually correcting the poor sound quality of the FR18 at source.  Still, worth looking into.

Not quite, it's an installation inside the box that allows it to be used as a midi box, quite small and unobtrusive but it sort 9f sits below the buttons.  For me the downsides are that it's not swappable between boxes and that you can't disable the reed sounds so , unlike a Streb, no good for silent practice.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Amplification/Midi
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2019, 10:06:25 PM »

...it's an installation inside the box that allows it to be used as a midi box, quite small and unobtrusive but it sort 9f sits below the buttons.  For me the downsides are that it's not swappable between boxes and that you can't disable the reed sounds so , unlike a Streb, no good for silent practice...

After a closer look at their website I have suspended my disbelief. Seems, they already do a midi melodeon based on a Delicia.
Suppose you would have a totally "midified" melodeon if you took the reeds out. Their lead time might be an incentive, even if their price isn't. If they work ok (they appear not to be beginners at this, so, presumably they are tried and tested) you could get as pretty a midi melodeon as the carcass you used.

What was the box you tried like to play, Rob? Did it feel right and respond like a real instrument?
You describe it as a B/C type. Does this mean it happened to have a B/C program running or, was it a dedicated  B/C?
« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 10:11:04 PM by Tone Dumb Greg »
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Greg Smith
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Rees

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Re: Amplification/Midi
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2019, 10:32:01 PM »

It was fitted with B/C reeds so had to be midi-tuned to the same system or would have sounded ghastly!
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Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Amplification/Midi
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2019, 10:40:41 PM »

It was fitted with B/C reeds so had to be midi-tuned to the same system or would have sounded ghastly!

Fair enough. Was it possible to tell how realistic it might be as a midi melodeon, though? Don't quite see the point in having a midi melodeon system with reeds. Surely you're better off just putting a pickup in a melodeon if all you want is to play through a speaker. 
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Greg Smith
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Rees

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Re: Amplification/Midi
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2019, 11:51:16 PM »

It had a fairly naff midi expander so sounded like a Casio keyboard. It would be much better with proper samples.
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Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
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Corinto

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Re: Amplification/Midi
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2019, 10:37:19 PM »

The final sound one gets from a midi device depends only on the sound module / sound expander one uses.

Here a few interesting links:

https://www.royhendriemusic.co.uk/sonority-uk/
http://www.accordionmagic.com/index.html
http://m.midicorreo.com/SD2/Accordion.mp3
http://m.midicorreo.com/SD2/sd2.htm
https://www.v3sound.com/en/e-product-accordion-master-xl.html

Myself I am having an accordion conversion to reedless midi at this very moment. I need it for silent practice.
When thinkering and deciding about this conversion, Sidmouth Scotland Accordions never forwarded me a sound sample, so I went to another provider. His general midi GM sound sample is fair and correct, good enough for silent practice. But then I will have also a MIDI-OUT socket, so if I want an external sound module with better accordion sounds, I will have this option also, either with one of the KETRON modules or one of the more expensive V3SOUND modules, ... of course, ymmv ...

Some of the V3SOUND modules have very nice accordion and melodeon sounds, but at this moment I can't find the links to their sound samples ... I've been looking around at my bookmarks but no way ... if I can locate the links I will update this post ... too much absinthe this evening ...
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Amplification/Midi
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2019, 11:14:45 PM »

The final sound one gets from a midi device depends only on the sound module / sound expander one uses.

Could you could make your own samples and use the midi switching to drive them. There are plenty of decent samplers around. Don't know what they cost, these days. Mine came free with a midi keyboard I bought years ago. It was fully functional but it had to have the keyboard connected to the PC to work. Then you could record samples, through a mic, to the PC and allocate them in the sampler.
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Greg Smith
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Toothwright

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Re: Amplification/Midi
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2019, 11:49:01 PM »

Hello Corinto,
I use a V3 triangle with Sonority uk and a Sipario router (from Hendrie) which I like.
Roy's samples for V3 triangle and V3 Desktop are always to be found on UTube - just search for Roy Hendrie and take your pick!
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 11:50:56 PM by Toothwright »
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Rob Lands

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Re: Amplification/Midi
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2019, 10:47:48 AM »

Rees has responded about the box type I tried, b/c.  I was intrigued rather than won over as I have practically no experience of using midi interface or samples.  They set up had 10 or 12 samples and were a little "keyboard sound" but I got the impression that it was a limited range on show with the melodeon they had set up and they were just presets. I did ask and was told you needed to have reeds removed to play silent.  I did pick up a leaflet so an idea of the cost (for accordions)
"Full Midi £699", "Bass Midi £499", "Microphones £299"  It is there design so if you have an interest in this sort of thing best to contact them direct to get definitive answers.
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Corinto

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Re: Amplification/Midi
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2019, 02:18:56 PM »

The final sound one gets from a midi device depends only on the sound module / sound expander one uses.
Could you could make your own samples and use the midi switching to drive them. There are plenty of decent samplers around. Don't know what they cost, these days. Mine came free with a midi keyboard I bought years ago. It was fully functional but it had to have the keyboard connected to the PC to work. Then you could record samples, through a mic, to the PC and allocate them in the sampler.
Don't know. My knowledge about MIDI es very very basic ...
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Corinto

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Re: Amplification/Midi
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2019, 02:20:30 PM »

Hello Corinto,
I use a V3 triangle with Sonority uk and a Sipario router (from Hendrie) which I like. Roy's samples for V3 triangle and V3 Desktop are always to be found on UTube - just search for Roy Hendrie and take your pick!
Yes, I agree, the V3 sounds are top quality, and lots to choose from, and not cheap.
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Corinto

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Re: Amplification/Midi
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2019, 02:26:57 PM »

I did pick up a leaflet so an idea of the cost (for accordions). "Full Midi £699", "Bass Midi £499", "Microphones £299"  It is there design so if you have an interest in this sort of thing best to contact them direct to get definitive answers.
Similar costs from several UK providers. In my case full midi + a basic sound card it was: "The least expensive system is £899 with a small connector to the power supply and a headphone connection.  This can also be played through an amplifier if you need it." ymmv.
If non UK resident, remember to do business, if you want to, before October 31.
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