Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: castagnari 1914 - tuning  (Read 2656 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

cathyrtaylor

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12
castagnari 1914 - tuning
« on: August 21, 2019, 06:14:31 PM »

Earlier this year I had a mad half hour and I am now the proud owner of a Castagnari 1914.

It is the box that I want, but I am not overly happy with the tuning.
To me it has a 'rattle' on some of the notes and basses. I can stop the right hand 'rattle' by switching off some of the reeds, but that defeats the object of the box.
A friend has taken a look at it, and has made it better but not perfect. He says it is a very dry box, and the alot of the reeds are tuned the same, causing the 'rattle'.  I hope this makes sense to people.
So the reason for my post is to find out what my options are....
Can the whole box be retuned to a 'Wetter' tuning.... can people advise me on my options.

Cathy
Logged

Theo

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13730
  • Hohner Club Too
    • The Box Place
Re: castagnari 1914 - tuning
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2019, 06:57:30 PM »

Dry tuning doesn’t make reeds rattle.  Wet tuning might mask the sound to some extent but it will still be there.  If you like to hear a wetter sound then the tuning can be adjusted,  but it would be sensible to identify the source of the rattle and deal with that first.

If the sound you are hearing is more noticeable on lower notes, and less on high notes then it might be valve noise. If the low reeds have plastic valves then they can usually be quietened by replacing the plastic valves with leather. There is always some valve noise, but usually it’s not very noticeable in normal play. If you would like to post a recording showing the rattle, then that might help us to advise you.
Logged
Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

Proprietor of The Box Place for melodeon and concertina sales and service.
Follow me on Twitter and Facebook for stock updates.

Matthew B

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 872
Re: castagnari 1914 - tuning
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2019, 08:24:33 PM »

Depending on where in the world you are located you may also have a friendly local repair person.  A melodeon technician may well be able to diagnose your problem if you bring the instrument into his or her workshop.  You could then also get an estimate for re-tuning should you decide to change the sound. 
Logged
Charter Member Presumpscot and Fore River Accordion Club

Thrupenny Bit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6831
  • happily squeezing away in Devon
Re: castagnari 1914 - tuning
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2019, 08:59:12 AM »

If it was 'earlier this year' and bought new (?), surely it's still under guarantee so perhaps a chat with the seller?

If a private sale, then yes talk to one of the fettlers on the forum might be a good move.
Q
Logged
Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4736
  • Windjammer
    • Wesson Accordions
Re: castagnari 1914 - tuning
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2019, 11:12:08 AM »

I've just caught up with this thread.
Cathy purchased the box from me at Chippenham Festival in May. (Hi Cathy). She came back the very next day with the rattling reed problem.
I checked the box right through and found nothing wrong with it. It had the standard over-run on the biggest reeds which is normal.
As Theo has said, there is nothing wrong with the tuning and even if there was it would not cause the reeds to rattle (whoever told her this is talking through their hat!).
However, Cathy still has a problem with it so it is up to me to put it right.
Firstly, the honourable Mister Stevefreereeder has a 1914 so I would kindly ask him to see if he has any rattles.
Secondly, the honourable Mister Peter Ward of Acorn has 1914 in stock so replacements are available.
Thirdly, Cathy send it back to me and one way or another the problem will be sorted. I'm assuming that the outer casework is still in good condition, if not we can come to some arrangement.
Onwards and upwards mes braves!

PS. It's not valve noise.
Logged
Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
Gungrog, Welshpool, Wales, UK
www.melodeons.com

Thrupenny Bit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6831
  • happily squeezing away in Devon
Re: castagnari 1914 - tuning
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2019, 11:27:22 AM »

Phew... that's what I call excellent service!
One way or another that should give a positive outcome 👍
Q
Logged
Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

cathyrtaylor

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12
Re: castagnari 1914 - tuning
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2019, 06:54:15 PM »

I will be paying Rees a visit tomorrow...
Logged

Rog

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2296
  • Repair and tuning in Hants
Re: castagnari 1914 - tuning
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2019, 04:02:27 AM »

When you get it back Rees I’d be interested to hear your diagnosis. Sometimes people mistake the natural 'growl' (which I like) for a rattle.

pete /acorn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 872
  • .Cast Trilly
    • Acorn Instruments
Re: castagnari 1914 - tuning
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2019, 07:10:52 AM »

I would just like to point out to anyone who buys a new,or even second hand,from a reputable trader,if they have a problem they should always take it back to where they bought it.
If they get friends or mess about with it themselves then this makes any warranty invalid
In my case new instruments have 12 months warranty which is extendable and pre owned also 12 months
Logged
Acorn Instruments are the official retailer for Castagnari Instruments,Melodeons and Accordions for England and Scotland and have an extensive stock of new instruments on the shelf for prompt delivery in standard layouts however these can easily be changed to customers specia lrequirements
 We also have the largest stock in the UK of  pre loved melodons all fully serviced,and with 12 months warranty
UK and international customers catered for
www.acorninstruments.co.uk

pete /acorn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 872
  • .Cast Trilly
    • Acorn Instruments
Re: castagnari 1914 - tuning
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2019, 07:34:48 AM »

Now that I have woken up properly I can maybe help here.
The noise you are hearing is a characteristic of the 1914.
The pallets on the bottom row do not hit the soundboard flat on,the lower edge hits fractionally first and you get a slight noise as the rest of the pallet closes.
It has been mentioned to Castagnari.
Logged
Acorn Instruments are the official retailer for Castagnari Instruments,Melodeons and Accordions for England and Scotland and have an extensive stock of new instruments on the shelf for prompt delivery in standard layouts however these can easily be changed to customers specia lrequirements
 We also have the largest stock in the UK of  pre loved melodons all fully serviced,and with 12 months warranty
UK and international customers catered for
www.acorninstruments.co.uk

Steve_freereeder

  • Content Manager
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7511
  • MAD is inevitable. Keep Calm and Carry On
    • Lizzie Dripping
Re: castagnari 1914 - tuning
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2019, 08:43:24 AM »

I have no 'rattles' on my 1914 boxes. I have one in G/C and one in D/G. The latter especially is in regular use and is my workhorse box. I consider the 1914 to be one of the finest models that Castagnari have made.

As Pete (Acorn) has mentioned, you are occasionally aware of some pallet noise when the spring returns the pallet to its resting position when the button is released. There is a slight 'clunk' noise. But it practice this is minimal and normally only apparent to the player in a quiet environment; listeners just a few feet away don't notice anything. The pallet noise is not a feature restricted to Castagnari 1914. When you start to listen carefully, you can hear it on many models and makes of boxes, not just Castagnaris. Instruments with metal action/levers are possibly more prone to the noise than those with wooden levers, which may possibly absorb more of the 'clunk'. 

I am wondering whether the 'rattle' described by Cathy in her original post is to do with the transient rasping or buzzing noise sometimes audible on changing from push to pull on the same button, and caused by the plastic (vinyl) valves. This can sometimes be noticeable when playing quietly and slowly at low bellows pressure, but again is not something specific to Castagnaris; any box with plastic valves can be prone to this effect at low bellows pressure, and tends to affect the larger, deeper pitch reeds. At normal playing loudness, the rasping noise is not apparent. Fitting leather valves can minimise the valve noise.

The only other thing I can think of is the noise generated by the larger reeds still continuing to vibrate after the button is released. The larger reeds often have a weighted tip and will still continue to make a 'twangy' sound even after the button is released, simply because they have so much momentum and take a fraction of a second to come to a stand still. Again, it is not normally audible to anyone else more than a couple of feet away, and is a feature of just about any make of instrument.

Cathy's observation that the 'rattle' disappears or is minimised when switching out some of the reeds (e.g. shutting off the larger L voice reeds) seems to suggest that the continuing 'after vibration' or possibly big reed valve noise is what she is hearing.

What it is not:
Nothing to do with the tuning, wet or dry.
Logged
Steve
Sheffield, UK.
www.lizziedripping.org.uk

rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4736
  • Windjammer
    • Wesson Accordions
Re: castagnari 1914 - tuning
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2019, 06:46:26 PM »

OK, initial report now that the instrument is in my workshop.
It has just taken me four hours to rectify the abominable mess created by Cathy's friend! A full report on that later.
This should automatically invalidate the guarantee - but hey I suppose I'm not that kind of a guy :)

Now that the instrument has been restored to as new condition I am able to concentrate on the rattle.
Firstly, it is not valve noise or tuning issues.
With the treble L reed switched in, any pull note below E3 causes the bass reeds in the left hand to rattle like crazy. This is particularly audible after the button is released.
So, any ideas?
Logged
Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
Gungrog, Welshpool, Wales, UK
www.melodeons.com

Theo

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13730
  • Hohner Club Too
    • The Box Place
Re: castagnari 1914 - tuning
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2019, 07:57:13 PM »

Maybe heavier leather valves on the bass reeds?

Or could it be some part of the bass mechanism rattling?   I’ve seen that occasionally.
Logged
Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

Proprietor of The Box Place for melodeon and concertina sales and service.
Follow me on Twitter and Facebook for stock updates.

rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4736
  • Windjammer
    • Wesson Accordions
Re: castagnari 1914 - tuning
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2019, 08:13:54 PM »

Thanks Theo. I'll check the mechanism but this definitely sound like bass reeds vibrating when the treble reed is played
To be clear, play right hand note, left hand bass reeds vibrate.
Heavier valves would stop air but not vibration particularly on the exposed push reeds.
I've used thickish leather valves with the heaviest steel spring strips.
Scratching my head here.
Logged
Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
Gungrog, Welshpool, Wales, UK
www.melodeons.com

Rog

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2296
  • Repair and tuning in Hants
Re: castagnari 1914 - tuning
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2019, 08:52:48 PM »

So, bass reeds are not being played? Assume you can’t determine what is striking what in there? You’ve probably done this, but I’d tape off bits until the rattle stops, to home in on the problem, to determine if it just one reed or a general bass problem....also maybe put a kink in the booster springs to push the valve firmly down. But if no air is being drawn/pushed through the bass end then something else might be vibrating...not necessarily a reed?
« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 08:57:26 PM by RogerT »
Logged

rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4736
  • Windjammer
    • Wesson Accordions
Re: castagnari 1914 - tuning
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2019, 09:01:09 PM »

OK, tomorrow I'll clamp all the bass reeds down and see what happens.
Definitely sounds like reeds to me - more of a boing than a rattle really ..............
Logged
Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
Gungrog, Welshpool, Wales, UK
www.melodeons.com

Clive Williams

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3557
    • Home Page
Re: castagnari 1914 - tuning
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2019, 09:47:02 PM »

Don't suppose it has a wheel based bass strap tightener does it? Not that I've ever been caught out by unrelated mechanics vibrating at an unexpected resonant frequency :-)

pete /acorn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 872
  • .Cast Trilly
    • Acorn Instruments
Re: castagnari 1914 - tuning
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2019, 06:18:35 AM »

Rees,I will be back home from Whitby festival by 12,I will give you a ring,I have an idea.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2019, 06:33:05 AM by pete /acorn »
Logged
Acorn Instruments are the official retailer for Castagnari Instruments,Melodeons and Accordions for England and Scotland and have an extensive stock of new instruments on the shelf for prompt delivery in standard layouts however these can easily be changed to customers specia lrequirements
 We also have the largest stock in the UK of  pre loved melodons all fully serviced,and with 12 months warranty
UK and international customers catered for
www.acorninstruments.co.uk

Steve_freereeder

  • Content Manager
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7511
  • MAD is inevitable. Keep Calm and Carry On
    • Lizzie Dripping
Re: castagnari 1914 - tuning
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2019, 06:57:14 AM »

Rees - PM sent
Logged
Steve
Sheffield, UK.
www.lizziedripping.org.uk

melodeon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1732
Re: castagnari 1914 - tuning
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2019, 11:35:50 PM »

Rees,

Update please.

Thanx
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal